Purpose/Use of a Pistol Caliber Carbine(PCC)

[74novaman]

Well, it would seem to me that a carbine might be next to useless in a car unless it was a folder. Yes, it can be difficult to draw a holstered pistol in a car, but wouldn't a "pistol" with a 16" barrel and a buttstock be even more difficult to bring to bear?

I did specify that for my purposes, I was refering to SBRd, mostly folding stock carbines.

Man.....I've got to stop skimming over posts and start actually reading them. I guess I'm a bit distracted today. Sorry.

Its cool. I agree with you, a 16" carbine doesn't have a ton of advantage over a 16" rifle in a rifle caliber.

When we start getting short and light, it becomes a different game altogether.

[74novaman]

For example:

Soviet PPS-43. 7.62x25 Tokarev...



British Sterling: 9mm,


H&K USC45. .45 acp,



Uzi in 9mm


These are more the type of gun I was thinking would be ideal to fill the role of a PPC.

[Beiruty]

Specter was cool but failed, it was so revolutionary at his days.




More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_M4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Beiruty]

KRIS is cool too:


Info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TDI_Vector" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[maverick2076]

I think they can fill a fairly useful niche in the home and personal defense world. As a lot of people around here know, I'm a fairly strong proponent of the Kel-Tec Sub2K as a PDW. Why?

1. Concealability: It folds up in half and stores in a 15" laptop bag, with mags. Great for carrying in a car, bug-out bag, etc.
2. Commonality: It can share mags with my larger EDC, a Glock 19.
3. Accuracy: Offhand, I can put rounds on a 6" target at a sustained pace with ease.
4. Simplicity: Blowback operated, easy to load, chamber, fire, strip and clean.
5. Reliability: I've got at least 1200 rounds through mine, with 1 FTF on a round that I discovered had a jacked-up case.
6. Comfort: It is easy to shoot, and my wife is very comfortable with it.
7. Affordability: cost about $350. For $1000, you could have this little carbine ($350), a complimentary pistol (G17/19/26) ($450), a holster for the pistol($50), a bag for the carbine($30), a couple of spare mags (I've found the 33 rd. Korean Glock mags to be perfectly reliable after deburring the feed lips)($50), and some ammo($80). That is a hell of a package that covers the gamut from CCW, in-home defense, car carry, and extended defense out to 100 yards. In an urban environment, do you REALLY ever see yourself shooting past 50 yards?

Now, in no way am I saying that this is the be all, end all self-defense solution. I'm not saying it is better than a pistol and an AR, or a pistol and a shotgun, or a pistol/AR/shotgun combo, etc. But when you consider all the above points together, you can see that it is a pretty potent little package with some nice advantages.

I'll climb down off the soapbox now...

[Kiowa Scout]

Here's an old thread on this http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=36438

[karder]

One of my passions is motorcycle touring and I can see a real advantage to having a PCC that would fit into my Pelican case luggage system. I have looked at a couple of options, but have not found anything I really like. I wish that FN would make a 5.7x28 carbine which would fold down to fit a iM2600 case. I guess that is kinda of specific, but I would be all over that if someone produced it. Kel-tec seems to be the only affordable option on the market that looks like it would work for me, but I have not warmed up to them just yet.

[RECIT]

One of my passions is motorcycle touring and I can see a real advantage to having a PCC that would fit into my Pelican case luggage system. I have looked at a couple of options, but have not found anything I really like. I wish that FN would make a 5.7x28 carbine which would fold down to fit a iM2600 case. I guess that is kinda of specific, but I would be all over that if someone produced it. Kel-tec seems to be the only affordable option on the market that looks like it would work for me, but I have not warmed up to them just yet.

A short barreled PS90 would do the trick. Not too cheap though...I think one might fit in a large shoe box maybe.

[The Annoyed Man]

An M1 is nice, but I'd still consider it more in the rifle category.

I think for the purposes I listed, an even more compact weapon is desirable.

Have you seen how short the M1 carbine is? Mine seems like a little dinky gun in the hands. But you're right....unless you have the "paratrooper" model, it doesn't fold.

[74novaman]

Tam, the folding stock does help. Overall length is still over 27 inches though. That's on par with an AK with a folding stock, but an SBR'd Uzi with the stock collapsed has an overall length of ~18 inches.

In a car particularly, that extra 9 inches you don't have to maneuver is nice.

While I think the M1 carbine can more easily than most rifles be made to fit the PCC niche, I don't view it as a weapon designed FOR that niche, if that makes sense.

Its certainly a valid option for the scenarios discussed however.

[rm9792]

There is also the possibilty of doing sbr with a carbine. A ps90 with the barrel chopped down is very maneuverable. Ar pistol with a collapsible stock is good to.

[AdioSS]

...Ar pistol with a collapsible stock is good to.

That got me to thinking about the Keltec PLR16, but it is a rifle caliber pistol. On the plus side is that it does share magazines with any standard AR15.
9.2" barrel & no buffer tube

[74novaman]

AudioSS, that is nice and concealable/manuverable.

That keltec and the Draco AK pistols, much like the m1 carbine, could be adapted to the role of a PCC. The disadvantage I see for the roles I described are: overpenetration in suburbia becomes s concern. They're also likely to be heavier and have a much louder/harder recoil impulse, making them less desirable for a smaller females go to gun.

[rcasady]

i love this thread . i have been weighing out the pros and cons for a few months over building a mp5k or some kind of dang tiny sbr carbine .
i usually come back to thinking i should just do a super short .22lr with a suppressor because i know i would shoot it everyday . but at the end of the day im still gonna be googling HK'S and Mac and obsessing over one .
truth is for me (civilian ) i have absolutely no use for one in . i want to say id slide an mp5 under my couch but i would never ever want that thing brought in court , nor would i want it confiscated in the event of home defense .
i would however consider it to be folded up in a bug out bag or some EOW situation.
in the past i would want my AR or mini 14 but those lil subguns are just soo easy to shoot, conceal and light and easy to pack ammo i think a reliable sbr carbine would be my personal choice . then again , a short barrled mini draco would be a sick packer too ....
but the only scenario i can imagine to validate a pistol caliber short carbine ( for me /non-professional) would be an, on-foot god awful end of world situation
( which then again would bring me back to a .22lr for hunting small meals ..... lol
truth is subguns & sbr carbines are just awesome if you have the means and place to blast one you probably already have more than one , and hopefully will never ever use it for real
they definitely have their place for sure . and if you already have your 3 basic food groups pistol-rifle-shotgun, then you need dessert

[Divided Attention]

I have 2 PCC -- 9mm RRA SBR - AR format - SO fun, and stinking accurate - took it to a girl's night out, and it was a hit with the ladies. Have a reflex site on it that I LOVE as long as I remove the polarizing filter when I have my polarized RX safety glasses on.

Then I have my baby .357 Marlin Lever Action. This was my hunting rifle as a teen. I have taken a couple deer with it (one with .38 pistol hand loads ), and plinked at many squirrel, knot hole, and turtle. I had not shot it for a long time, and had forgotten how much fun it was. My daughter loves it too.