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v-rog wrote:Also, plan to pay for shipping when the Taurus needs work. Cost one of my friends $60! Not so with S&W, I'd go with the Shield.
Cheap is expensive

While I would say Shield above 709, this statement is not correct. Having owned 7 or 8 Tauri's, they have always paid shipping both ways. In fact, twice I called and FedEx was at my door with a prepaid box within the hour. You must call and ask for label or box for returns, providing it is first year. After that, yes you pay. But not in first year. Your friends may have been over 1 year old, bought used, or not called and asked for label. I have seen several times on here folks say they shipped it back on their own dime w/o calling to ask for label or box. http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/700s/ ... -ever.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Shot the 709, and hated the cruddy trigger, oversized trigger guard, and the poor accuracy I got out of it. I haven't shot the Shield, but I know I wouldn't buy a 709.

You might want to consider the Kahr CW9. Similar size, and can be found new for $400. I love mine.

Are you saying I'm lying? I know what my friend went through to get a new trigger due to a defective one.

wgoforth wrote:

v-rog wrote:Also, plan to pay for shipping when the Taurus needs work. Cost one of my friends $60! Not so with S&W, I'd go with the Shield.
Cheap is expensive

While I would say Shield above 709, this statement is not correct. Having owned 7 or 8 Tauri's, they have always paid shipping both ways. In fact, twice I called and FedEx was at my door with a prepaid box within the hour. You must call and ask for label or box for returns, providing it is first year. After that, yes you pay. But not in first year. Your friends may have been over 1 year old, bought used, or not called and asked for label. I have seen several times on here folks say they shipped it back on their own dime w/o calling to ask for label or box. http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/700s/ ... -ever.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

v-rog wrote:Are you saying I'm lying? I know what my friend went through to get a new trigger due to a defective one.

wgoforth wrote:

v-rog wrote:Also, plan to pay for shipping when the Taurus needs work. Cost one of my friends $60! Not so with S&W, I'd go with the Shield.
Cheap is expensive

While I would say Shield above 709, this statement is not correct. Having owned 7 or 8 Tauri's, they have always paid shipping both ways. In fact, twice I called and FedEx was at my door with a prepaid box within the hour. You must call and ask for label or box for returns, providing it is first year. After that, yes you pay. But not in first year. Your friends may have been over 1 year old, bought used, or not called and asked for label. I have seen several times on here folks say they shipped it back on their own dime w/o calling to ask for label or box. http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/700s/ ... -ever.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No one said you were lying...please re-read my explanation? I said your friend may not have called them and specifically asked them about a label, it may have been more than a year old or may have been used was all. Check the link I supplied of another Taurus owner saying it, or call Taurus on Mon. They pay shipping first year plain and simple. Have seen many times where folks sent their gun to a manufacturer and then griped because they didn't reimburse also. They don't reimburse as they can provide a shipping label much cheaper.

Thanks for your clarification. My low view of Taurus is partly due to this incident (The other part is due to actually shooting a Taurus pistol). The rep, who might have been misinformed, told my friend that he had to pay for shipping. He ended up paying around $60 when it was all said and done. His trigger was repaired and his wallet was lighter. I'm glad it has worked out for you.

wgoforth wrote:

v-rog wrote:Also, plan to pay for shipping when the Taurus needs work. Cost one of my friends $60! Not so with S&W, I'd go with the Shield.
Cheap is expensive

While I would say Shield above 709, this statement is not correct.

I think the fairest thing to state is Taurus is inconsistent in their customer service. I've read of many cases where they did not pay shipping, and I've read of cases where they have.

There was an interview with the new CEO of Taurus in one of the gun magazines, forget which one (maybe American Handgunner?), in which he said one of his major strategic objectives at Taurus is to improve their customer service. He pointed to some recent statistics that indicated improvement. Of course, the very fact that he made it a strategic objective is de facto acknowledgment that customer service was a problem.

That is well & good, but in my opinion it takes a long time to correct a bad reputation and establish a new one.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

scref wrote:Is the Shield worth $150.00 more?

Yes, it is. The M&P platform is first tier. The Taurus isn't.

texanron wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

scref wrote:Is the Shield worth $150.00 more?

Yes, it is. The M&P platform is first tier. The Taurus isn't.

So many Taurus haters here.....

I own two PT709's. My wife and I use 'em for our EDC.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30400" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Take them out of the box, disassemble, clean thoroughly, polish the ramp, de-burr the trigger group a bit, oil, and put back together. Not one single FTE/FTF. And, I'll stand next to anyone using any out of the box pistol of the same size and compare groups. We all know, the most important part of hitting what you aim at isn't the pistol. I have less than $600 investment in two pistols that I'm confident will do the job if called upon.

I've seen the S&W on magazine covers, and might like to try shooting one. Having said that, I most definitely prefer my XDm .40 over my friends M&P any day of the week. But, that's just me.

My experience with service has been second hand. My friend had to ship back his .380, and it was gone and back in four business days. And....if you go to the Taurus forum, the customer service comments state that is strong and consistent:

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/700s/ ... shers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have many other options for carry. But this is small, and handles well.

As always, my .02 cents. That is all.

A point of clarification- I talked with my friend, who owns the Taurus pistol, and he had to pay the shipping costs to have his gun repaired because he is the second owner.

chuckybrown wrote:

texanron wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

scref wrote:Is the Shield worth $150.00 more?

Yes, it is. The M&P platform is first tier. The Taurus isn't.

So many Taurus haters here.....

I own two PT709's. My wife and I use 'em for our EDC.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30400" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Take them out of the box, disassemble, clean thoroughly, polish the ramp, de-burr the trigger group a bit, oil, and put back together. Not one single FTE/FTF. And, I'll stand next to anyone using any out of the box pistol of the same size and compare groups. We all know, the most important part of hitting what you aim at isn't the pistol. I have less than $600 investment in two pistols that I'm confident will do the job if called upon.

I've seen the S&W on magazine covers, and might like to try shooting one. Having said that, I most definitely prefer my XDm .40 over my friends M&P any day of the week. But, that's just me.

My experience with service has been second hand. My friend had to ship back his .380, and it was gone and back in four business days. And....if you go to the Taurus forum, the customer service comments state that is strong and consistent:

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/700s/ ... shers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have many other options for carry. But this is small, and handles well.

As always, my .02 cents. That is all.

Got to agree, I have the PT709 and is my normal EDC. Mine shoots well and has been completely reliable--wouldn't try to change anyones mind about them just my experience with them.

My husband and I each own a 709 and we love em. No problems at all, other than getting used to a smaller gun than what I had before. We also own 3 other full size Taurus guns. One has had to be shipped back(.40 24/7 OSS) for a trigger problem and that was after 2 years of owning it. We didn't pay shipping. I called Academy, where we bought it to ask them how I go about shipping it back, they told me to bring it in, that they would take care of it for me. They sent it back for us and got it shipped back to them, where I picked it up...no problems and no cost to us at all. Got it back in a week.
So, as far as customer service, academy and Taurus have been awesome.
RK~

I know Taurus has had lemons and to be sure they aren't Sigs (but then, what is? )

But I had a 709, no prob other than I personally did not like the trigger feel. Had the TCP and it was a step up from the LCP in that it would lock open on last round.
Still have two 24/7's that each have had thousands of flawless rounds through....took it to two different shooting schools where I shot 1,000 rounds in one day and 800 in another w/o any flaws, other than one bad primer. I would stack the 24/7's against most mass produced guns. We have those as our home defense guns and obviously trust my families lives with those given I did the combat shooting flawlessly with them. Some countries use the 24/7 as their military and police guns. My opinion is the 24/7 is the best gun Taurus has designed.

I had a 24/7 OSS with a match grade barrel and it was a tack driver. Only sold it as I didn't need a toy.

Bought a 25 year old used PT92 that looked rough but was a great shooter..son has it now. The PT92 is made in the same factory the Beretta 92 was made.

I do carry a SIg for my EDC just because it fills a niche no other quite did, and I use a Sig 226 for target shooting because of the accuracy and I can shoot it better. But keep in mind, Taurus is the worlds largest arms producer, so of course they are going to have more bad ones...but that doesn't mean they are bad guns.

Again that said, I do believe the M&P to be a step up (as a Sig is to a Glock), but that doesn't mean either is bad...but I tell people in my classes that if they want a less expensive gun, I believe Taurus offers a lot of bang for the buck.

Everyone has or knows of horror stories with Tauri's...but I have also heard them on Glocks and other brands. Don't want one? Don't buy one!

Real question is what do YOU want? Don't worry about what these other folks are saying, you decide what fits your hand and pocketbook better.

I'm not a Taurus "hater." I just think that A) this particular S&W is a better gun than this particular Taurus, and that B) S&W pistols in general are better pistols than Taurus pistols in general. That's all. That doesn't mean that I think Taurus is crap. I think that Ed Brown 1911s are better 1911s than my Kimber 1911. Doesn't mean that Kimbers are crap. It simply means that there is a hierarchy of quality in firearms, just like with anything else.

The Annoyed Man wrote:I'm not a Taurus "hater." I just think that A) this particular S&W is a better gun than this particular Taurus, and that B) S&W pistols in general are better pistols than Taurus pistols in general. That's all. That doesn't mean that I think Taurus is crap. I think that Ed Brown 1911s are better 1911s than my Kimber 1911. Doesn't mean that Kimbers are crap. It simply means that there is a hierarchy of quality in firearms, just like with anything else.

Agree 100%!

Thanks for all the info. I still haven't decided on which gun yet. With the M&P Shield being so hard to find right now it is giving me more time to think about my decision