Gunman Kills 5 in Utah Shopping Mall
Moderator: carlson1
Interesting blog. Info is unconfirmed
http://arepublicifyoucankeepit.blogspot ... blood.html
"And so they shamelessly dance in the blood of the innocent...
The Brady Bunch have decided to again use the horrible Tolley Square (Utah) tragedy as a call to arms for their socialist agenda.
I live about 30 minutes from the Trolley Square mall, and it is situated in one of the MOST liberal parts of Salt Lake City (AKA "Little 'Frisco" in certain circles - for the politics in the area). This is also one of the few malls in Utah that features a "NO GUNS ALLOWED" sign on their doors so I rarely (if ever) frequent the mall. Guess that sign really helped...
What happened was horrible, undeniably - but to call for additional gun restrictions (as the Brady's and the local mayor - Rocky Anderson) is to doom more people to the same fate. You see, the ONLY people stopped by "NO GUNS ALLOWED" signs are the law abiding, the Concealed Carry holders - that could/would have ended the life of the one that carried out this heinous crime BEFORE he slaughtered those innocents.
Amazingly, I have heard dozens of times on both radio and local blogs that people are planning to obtain a firearm and concealed carry permit. One older lady on the radio stated (to the best of my recollection) that she hated guns in the past, but considering how long it took the police to show up (by all reports several minutes - and ALOT can happen in a single minute), she now wants to purchase a firearm and carry permit. The "sheeple" are waking up - this is good, but the cost to wake them up, one that should not have been paid.
Sadly, I fear that most will forget this incident within a year, just like the L.A riots, Katrina etc...ad infinitum..."
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And another report:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=54247
Utah gunman, 18, was Muslim from Bosnia
Killed 5 in crowded shopping mall before being gunned down
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: February 13, 2007
7:29 p.m. Eastern
The 18-year-old gunman who killed five people in a crowded Utah shopping mall was a Bosnian Muslim refugee who was prepared to kill many more, say investigators.
An off-duty police officer having an early Valentine's Day dinner with his wife was credited today with cornering Sulejmen Talovic, exchanging fire with him until other officers arrived to shoot and kill the gunman.
The trench-coated teenager wanted to "to kill a large number of people" and probably would have killed many more if not for the off-duty officer, Police Chief Chris Burbank said.
A friend said Talovic was from the war-torn country of Bosnia and that the trauma he experienced while growing up may have led to him snapping for some reason.
Ken Hammond, an off-duty officer from Ogden, north of Salt Lake City, jumped up from his seat at a restaurant after hearing gunfire and cornered the gunman, exchanging fire with him until other officers arrived, Burbank said.
"There is no question that his quick actions saved the lives of numerous other people," the police chief said.
Police said it was not immediately clear who fired the shot that killed Talovic.
Talovic had a backpack full of ammunition, a shotgun and a .38-caliber pistol, police said. Investigators knew little about Talovic, except than he lived in Salt Lake City with his mother, the chief said. He was enrolled in numerous city schools before withdrawing in 2004, the school district said. Initially, police refused to release his name or any information about his background.
Talovic drove to the Trolley Square shopping center – a century-old former trolley barn with winding hallways, brick floors and wrought-iron balconies, and immediately killed two people, followed by a third victim as he came through a door, Burbank said. Five other people were then shot in a gift shop, he said.
Four people who were wounded remained hospitalized today, two in critical condition, two in serious.
Outside the mall, candles and flowers were left as memorials to the victims.
Hammond's boss, Ogden Police Chief Jon Greiner, said the state Senate wants to honor him.
"Thank goodness he was there," said Greiner, who is also a state senator. "You don't want to ever say it's good we were there and killed somebody, but it's probably good someone was there."
Accountant Jeff Barlow was on a date at a restaurant when he looked outside and saw the gunman firing from the hip.
"I thought it was some kind of joke – some kind of movie or stunt," Barlow said. "I didn't believe it was happening. And then I saw a man go down in a courtyard. I realized this was serious. These are real bullets flying around."
David Dean, who owns a greeting-card store at the mall, said three or four people died inside his store, which was packed with Valentine's Day shoppers. "
http://arepublicifyoucankeepit.blogspot ... blood.html
"And so they shamelessly dance in the blood of the innocent...
The Brady Bunch have decided to again use the horrible Tolley Square (Utah) tragedy as a call to arms for their socialist agenda.
I live about 30 minutes from the Trolley Square mall, and it is situated in one of the MOST liberal parts of Salt Lake City (AKA "Little 'Frisco" in certain circles - for the politics in the area). This is also one of the few malls in Utah that features a "NO GUNS ALLOWED" sign on their doors so I rarely (if ever) frequent the mall. Guess that sign really helped...
What happened was horrible, undeniably - but to call for additional gun restrictions (as the Brady's and the local mayor - Rocky Anderson) is to doom more people to the same fate. You see, the ONLY people stopped by "NO GUNS ALLOWED" signs are the law abiding, the Concealed Carry holders - that could/would have ended the life of the one that carried out this heinous crime BEFORE he slaughtered those innocents.
Amazingly, I have heard dozens of times on both radio and local blogs that people are planning to obtain a firearm and concealed carry permit. One older lady on the radio stated (to the best of my recollection) that she hated guns in the past, but considering how long it took the police to show up (by all reports several minutes - and ALOT can happen in a single minute), she now wants to purchase a firearm and carry permit. The "sheeple" are waking up - this is good, but the cost to wake them up, one that should not have been paid.
Sadly, I fear that most will forget this incident within a year, just like the L.A riots, Katrina etc...ad infinitum..."
-----------------------------------------------------
And another report:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=54247
Utah gunman, 18, was Muslim from Bosnia
Killed 5 in crowded shopping mall before being gunned down
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: February 13, 2007
7:29 p.m. Eastern
The 18-year-old gunman who killed five people in a crowded Utah shopping mall was a Bosnian Muslim refugee who was prepared to kill many more, say investigators.
An off-duty police officer having an early Valentine's Day dinner with his wife was credited today with cornering Sulejmen Talovic, exchanging fire with him until other officers arrived to shoot and kill the gunman.
The trench-coated teenager wanted to "to kill a large number of people" and probably would have killed many more if not for the off-duty officer, Police Chief Chris Burbank said.
A friend said Talovic was from the war-torn country of Bosnia and that the trauma he experienced while growing up may have led to him snapping for some reason.
Ken Hammond, an off-duty officer from Ogden, north of Salt Lake City, jumped up from his seat at a restaurant after hearing gunfire and cornered the gunman, exchanging fire with him until other officers arrived, Burbank said.
"There is no question that his quick actions saved the lives of numerous other people," the police chief said.
Police said it was not immediately clear who fired the shot that killed Talovic.
Talovic had a backpack full of ammunition, a shotgun and a .38-caliber pistol, police said. Investigators knew little about Talovic, except than he lived in Salt Lake City with his mother, the chief said. He was enrolled in numerous city schools before withdrawing in 2004, the school district said. Initially, police refused to release his name or any information about his background.
Talovic drove to the Trolley Square shopping center – a century-old former trolley barn with winding hallways, brick floors and wrought-iron balconies, and immediately killed two people, followed by a third victim as he came through a door, Burbank said. Five other people were then shot in a gift shop, he said.
Four people who were wounded remained hospitalized today, two in critical condition, two in serious.
Outside the mall, candles and flowers were left as memorials to the victims.
Hammond's boss, Ogden Police Chief Jon Greiner, said the state Senate wants to honor him.
"Thank goodness he was there," said Greiner, who is also a state senator. "You don't want to ever say it's good we were there and killed somebody, but it's probably good someone was there."
Accountant Jeff Barlow was on a date at a restaurant when he looked outside and saw the gunman firing from the hip.
"I thought it was some kind of joke – some kind of movie or stunt," Barlow said. "I didn't believe it was happening. And then I saw a man go down in a courtyard. I realized this was serious. These are real bullets flying around."
David Dean, who owns a greeting-card store at the mall, said three or four people died inside his store, which was packed with Valentine's Day shoppers. "
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HankB
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This incident was reported, but there wasn't the usual media feeding frenzy. I thought, to myself "WHY would the overwhelmingly anti-gun media soft-pedal a mass shooting murder?" Normally, they lick their chops and go on a "guns are bad" bender. But so far, the coverage seems to be matter-of-fact.
I had an idea, but my suspicions weren't confirmed until I read
I had an idea, but my suspicions weren't confirmed until I read
So the perp was a Moslem and an immigrant. To be sure, murders are committed by people of all backgrounds, but criminal actions from certain demographics seem to be less . . . newsworthy.The 18-year-old gunman who killed five people in a crowded Utah shopping mall was a Bosnian Muslim refugee . . .
Original CHL: 2000: 56 day turnaround
1st renewal, 2004: 34 days
2nd renewal, 2008: 81 days
3rd renewal, 2013: 12 days
1st renewal, 2004: 34 days
2nd renewal, 2008: 81 days
3rd renewal, 2013: 12 days
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TX Rancher
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Possibly...but they could also say "See, this is why you don't need to carry, the police took care of it.". After all, the guy was an off duty LEO. No mater what the facts are, they will be able to spin this onestroo wrote:The other problem for the antis is that the guy was stopped by a guy carrying a concealed weapon. May have been an off duty LEO but nonetheless he was carrying concealed. Proves the efficacy of concealed carry.
Of course I wish this hadn't happened, but since it did, I do wish the guy had of been a civillian CHL, that would give us something to spin.
Not really.TX Rancher wrote:Of course I wish this hadn't happened, but since it did, I do wish the guy had of been a civillian CHL, that would give us something to spin.
If it had been a civilian who did exactly the same thing (pinned the guy in a corner until the uniforms arrived to finish things), we wouldn't have heard a word about it in the news.
A few second-hand reports would be found on the gun forums, with outrage about how it was unreported by the major media. And then it would all fade away into a faint memory, known only to the gun rights community, just like the high school principal retrieving his gun to stop the shooter in Pearl, Mississippi.
Kevin
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casselthief
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I just saw some interresting news footage a lady was able to get some video of the shooteer which looked pretty close during his rampage too bad she had a camera instead of a gun. If she was able to hide well enough to get video without being detected she was able to hide well enough to get a shot off.
If it's a civilian, s/he would be shot by SWAT team.
KBCraig wrote:
If it had been a civilian who did exactly the same thing (pinned the guy in a corner until the uniforms arrived to finish things), we wouldn't have heard a word about it in the news.
A few second-hand reports would be found on the gun forums, with outrage about how it was unreported by the major media. And then it would all fade away into a faint memory, known only to the gun rights community, just like the high school principal retrieving his gun to stop the shooter in Pearl, Mississippi.
Kevin
Please help the wounded store owner who fought off 3 robbers. He doesn't have medical insurance.
http://www.giveforward.com/ramoncastillo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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http://www.giveforward.com/ramoncastillo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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This is why it's important to make sure your family/friends know the importance of calling 911. They need to be able to tell them what is going on and give YOUR description and what you're doing.Stupid wrote:If it's a civilian, s/he would be shot by SWAT team.
"If a man breaks in your house, he ain't there for iced tea." Mom & Dad.
The NRA & TSRA are a bargain; they're much cheaper than the cold, dead hands experience.
The NRA & TSRA are a bargain; they're much cheaper than the cold, dead hands experience.
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G.C.Montgomery
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Not necessarily so. I may not think every cop is the sharpest tool in the shed but I don't think all are trigger happy idiots either. No question that there is a very high risk of being shot but, remember the off-duty officer involved was in plain clothes when the first responding officers arrived.Stupid wrote:If it's a civilian, s/he would be shot by SWAT team.
We don't know the specifics of his interaction with the responding officers but we do know he worked in another county and probably was unknown to uniformed responders. A CHL holder could easily be in the same position. As evidenced by the fact he was alive to take credit for his actions, the first cops on the scene didn't just mindlessly blast the first guy they saw with a gun.
When you take the time out of your day to beat someone, it has a much longer lasting effect on their demeanor than simply shooting or tazing them.
G. C. Montgomery, Jr.
G. C. Montgomery, Jr.
what I find fascinating about this scenereo is that this off duty officer didn't have an unlimmited supply of ammo. It was reported that he had one handgun and no extra magazinines. What we must assume is that the terrorist did not know this and that what we had is a sort of Mexican stand off. The off-duty officer might have had a gun in his hand when the calvery arrived, but the officer/hero by this time probably wasn't doing a lot of shooting.G.C.Montgomery wrote:Not necessarily so. I may not think every cop is the sharpest tool in the shed but I don't think all are trigger happy idiots either. No question that there is a very high risk of being shot but, remember the off-duty officer involved was in plain clothes when the first responding officers arrived.Stupid wrote:If it's a civilian, s/he would be shot by SWAT team.
We don't know the specifics of his interaction with the responding officers but we do know he worked in another county and probably was unknown to uniformed responders. A CHL holder could easily be in the same position. As evidenced by the fact he was alive to take credit for his actions, the first cops on the scene didn't just mindlessly blast the first guy they saw with a gun.
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rodnocker1
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Over on the 1911forum.com site, someone posed a question about "how many mags do you carry?". It seems like the general concensus was that if you can't get the problem contained with just 7 shots (1 mag), you had no business carrying a weapon. Personally, I think that you can never have enough. If the situation can be neutralized in 1 round or 1 mag, then "Great!", leave the other mags holstered. My daily CCW is an XD45 with 14 rnds of 230 gr. HP in the gun and 2 spare mags. If that isn't enough, then hopefully one of my fellow CHL Brothers or Sisters (or an LEO) will be there to take over where I leave off.
Rodney