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Winchester Rangers. Hands down!

Jumping Frog wrote:

Excaliber wrote:If you use a semiauto you'll want to fire a couple of boxes before you bet your life on it.

Yep. I shot 150 rounds with it before I started carrying Ranger T. Of course, I would shoot 150 rounds of any carry ammo before carrying it.

Sounds like you're good to go.

hmm. I have heard of some of the SXT having issues in some departments but not the current ranger T. I have run it in various 45's without a hickup, my mp5 eats it up as well as my m11/9. I count my life on it. I havent tried it in a 380 yet but I expect it to run great. That said I will run a few boxes of it before I carry it. Just like I did the critical defense. I even put ranger T +p in the .38 I bought my mom. I have had good luck with it.

JeepGuy79 wrote:hmm. I have heard of some of the SXT having issues in some departments but not the current ranger T. I have run it in various 45's without a hickup, my mp5 eats it up as well as my m11/9. I count my life on it. I havent tried it in a 380 yet but I expect it to run great. That said I will run a few boxes of it before I carry it. Just like I did the critical defense. I even put ranger T +p in the .38 I bought my mom. I have had good luck with it.

I still have a box of the ammo I and my local sheriff's office had trouble with. The box code is R45T.

It caused feeding issues in my Kimber Pro Carry and my Springfield XD. My Kimber is well proven with thousands of rounds of many types of ammo through it, and the XD eats everything except that particular type of Ranger ammo. I would get one or two failures to feed in every 50 rounds - totally unacceptable for serious carry.

I just looked in the safe. Looks like new stuff is RA45T (A) RA9T (A) A designation after T is +p. I am a weirdo, I weigh all my carry rounds for consistency, date them, then rotate them out twice a year. That R45T is not that old though, and I have some of it. I think I have 2009 dates written on the boxes but I will have to dig it out to be sure. I need to run some to see how it is.

Thanks for the info on the problems.

Winchester PDX1's are pretty dang consistent too

In a 38 snub I carry either 158gr LSWC +P (FBI load) or Speer GD 135gr +P:

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_i ... llow-point" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.thegunzone.com/speer135jhp38sp.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_i ... llow-point" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=100517" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ghostrider wrote:In a 38 snub I carry either 158gr LSWC +P (FBI load) or Speer GD 135gr +P:

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_i ... llow-point" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.thegunzone.com/speer135jhp38sp.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_i ... llow-point" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=100517" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Use of heavy bullet / heavy recoil loads in snubby revolvers carries some risk that the projectiles in unfired rounds will move forward in the case when the first rounds are fired. They may do so to the point that they protrude from the front of the cylinder and lock up the gun in a way that no immediate action drill can fix.

For this reason I prefer 135 grain loads in a .38 snub. I know I give up a bit in penetration that may require slightly modified decisions on target areas during an encounter, but I'm willing to accept that to preserve reliability without which nothing else counts.

Use of heavy bullet / heavy recoil loads in snubby revolvers carries some risk that the projectiles in unfired rounds will move forward in the case when the first rounds are fired. They may do so to the point that they protrude from the front of the cylinder and lock up the gun in a way that no immediate action drill can fix.

excellent points.
The 158gr FBI load has been around for a while - I'd like to think that it shouldn't be a problem with factory ammo (or good quality handloads). But the majority of factory defensive 38spl +P ammo does seem to be in the 110gr to 135gr range.

ghostrider wrote:

Use of heavy bullet / heavy recoil loads in snubby revolvers carries some risk that the projectiles in unfired rounds will move forward in the case when the first rounds are fired. They may do so to the point that they protrude from the front of the cylinder and lock up the gun in a way that no immediate action drill can fix.

excellent points.
The 158gr FBI load has been around for a while - I'd like to think that it shouldn't be a problem with factory ammo (or good quality handloads). But the majority of factory defensive 38spl +P ammo does seem to be in the 110gr to 135gr range.

Remember that most FBI agents carried 4 inch all steel revolvers, with some all steel 2 1/2 inch ones when that round was developed.

The cylinder lockup potential is more likely to be an issue in the ultra lightweight snubs than all steel ones.

The cylinder lockup potential is more likely to be an issue in the ultra lightweight snubs than all steel ones.

true. I'm using a snub SP101, which isn't anywhere near ultralight :-)

There are a lot of good hollow point rounds. I prefer Corbon DPX.

I have found that revolver hollowpoints are best when cast by me. I adjust the mix to the speed of the load for that particular revolver.

Pure lead with 2.5% tin is a great mix for small framed .38 specials, this mix will expand at the expected velocities and give good penetration. Less tin will give a softer mix but poor mold fill out and some leading issues, but in a defensive round leading is not a great concern.

So cast a few of these bullets up for your .38 special and you will not be disappointed.

Excaliber wrote:

ghostrider wrote:

Use of heavy bullet / heavy recoil loads in snubby revolvers carries some risk that the projectiles in unfired rounds will move forward in the case when the first rounds are fired. They may do so to the point that they protrude from the front of the cylinder and lock up the gun in a way that no immediate action drill can fix.

excellent points.
The 158gr FBI load has been around for a while - I'd like to think that it shouldn't be a problem with factory ammo (or good quality handloads). But the majority of factory defensive 38spl +P ammo does seem to be in the 110gr to 135gr range.

Remember that most FBI agents carried 4 inch all steel revolvers, with some all steel 2 1/2 inch ones when that round was developed.

The cylinder lockup potential is more likely to be an issue in the ultra lightweight snubs than all steel ones.

A while back, I posted an attempt at humor, describing my mistakenly loading a 158 grain .357 white tail hunting load into a scandium framed 2" .357 snubbie and giving my hand a beat down for my troubles. Thing is, the one thing that would have likely saved me some pain would have been the cylinder locking up from the effects of recoil on the cartridges still in the cylinder. It didn't lock up, and I kept shooting.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

Excaliber wrote:

ghostrider wrote:

Use of heavy bullet / heavy recoil loads in snubby revolvers carries some risk that the projectiles in unfired rounds will move forward in the case when the first rounds are fired. They may do so to the point that they protrude from the front of the cylinder and lock up the gun in a way that no immediate action drill can fix.

excellent points.
The 158gr FBI load has been around for a while - I'd like to think that it shouldn't be a problem with factory ammo (or good quality handloads). But the majority of factory defensive 38spl +P ammo does seem to be in the 110gr to 135gr range.

Remember that most FBI agents carried 4 inch all steel revolvers, with some all steel 2 1/2 inch ones when that round was developed.

The cylinder lockup potential is more likely to be an issue in the ultra lightweight snubs than all steel ones.

A while back, I posted an attempt at humor, describing my mistakenly loading a 158 grain .357 white tail hunting load into a scandium framed 2" .357 snubbie and giving my hand a beat down for my troubles. Thing is, the one thing that would have likely saved me some pain would have been the cylinder locking up from the effects of recoil on the cartridges still in the cylinder. It didn't lock up, and I kept shooting.

I won't comment on the wisdom of firing all those rounds in that gun after experiencing the first one. However, it's worthwhile to point out that the tricky part here is that cylinder lockup from forward bullet movement in the unfired cylinders it doesn't happen all the time - even with the same ammo and same gun.

If it happens on the range, it's an annoyance and presents a most interesting problem to fix - there is no immediate action drill for it, you can't open the cylinder, you can't unload the gun, and you can't fire the live ammo out of it. It may well take a trip to the gunsmith to get it sorted out.

If it happens on the third shot in the middle of a gunfight that requires more rounds than that, it's likely to be fatally embarrassing.

Of course, it might not happen in the middle of your gunfight.

I figure there are enough uncontrollable variables involved in a serious encounter that I choose not to add known risks without a real good reason - like having no viable alternative available. When there is a viable alternative, I choose the one with the lowest risk in an effort to reduce the number of possible ways things can go south. Being involved in a gunfight would qualify as a really bad day to begin with, and I wouldn't want to be dealing with any unnecessary points of failure that I could have avoided if I'd just given things a bit more thought. Mentally kicking myself in the backside at a moment like that wouldn't enhance the outlook for a bright future.

YMMV