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Re: DIY NFA Trusts
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:22 pm
by PUCKER
alvins wrote:PUCKER wrote:alvins wrote:i had sean cody do mine.when it comes to nfa stuff their isnt any room to make mistakes.
alvins - just curious, have you looked at the above sample/example trust? Does it appear fairly similar to what you had professionally prepared?
mine is similar with a lot more stuff in it.that sample is 8 pages mine is 29. whos is better?im not a lawyer.but im not going to post mine.
Appreciate your response.
And for the record, I ever implied asking that you would post yours.
Re: DIY NFA Trusts
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:40 pm
by alvins
its fine i just wanted to make it clear to anyone thinking about asking.
Re: DIY NFA Trusts
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:58 pm
by APynckel
alvins wrote:i had sean cody do mine.when it comes to nfa stuff their isnt any room to make mistakes.
i know some gun shops offer to do a trust for you but that is also called practicing law without a license.
I had him do mine as well.
Re: DIY NFA Trusts
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:36 pm
by tbrown
The Annoyed Man wrote:Pay a lawyer $500 now, versus pay him $50,000 later?
Isn't that the same argument made by these guys?
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=37925" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: DIY NFA Trusts
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:34 pm
by G.A. Heath
My reply will cover comparing Apples, Oranges, Lettuce, and Tomatoes. A trust is kinda like a business agreement. You can pay the lawyer money to make sure its done 100% right (apple), or you can take your chances that you may have gotten it right doing it yourself (Lettuce). In regards to the above insurance thread I am willing to pay an attorney a retainer to come to my aid (Orange) but not willing to buy "Insurance" that may or may not cover me for the same thing (Tomato).
Re: DIY NFA Trusts
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:08 pm
by Wes
I just went through this very same thing and actually did one online before determining I would prefer to pay a lawyer and make sure it was right from the get go. I would hate to wait for my Form 4 just to be denied and have to start over. Plus, if it does get through and its still wrong, which can happen, and I get in trouble later then it really wasnt worth saving a buck now.
I used The Bass Firm here in Dallas, and Chris Bass was quick to respond to my questions. Once I was ready to go he had it ready and mailed to me the same week. The best part, he only charges $300! I would highly recommend him if you are wanting to get a trust set up, it was a small price to pay IMO. Oh, and I ordered a Warlock II ;)
Re: DIY NFA Trusts
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:44 am
by Abraham
I am completely in the dark regarding performing the necessary paper work to legally obtain a suppressor for my Glock 19.
I live in the county and can legally practice shooting in my back yard range. Though my neighbors don't complain, as most are also gun folk, I always feel vaguely uncomfortable about the noise I create when I practice shoot. I really don't care to be a "noise nuisance". Thus, the desire to shoot with a suppressed pistol. Plus, I hope, with a suppressed pistol, I may not need to wear uncomfortable hearing protection. Or, at least not as much of it as I currently don...
Is an "NFA trust" the the most comprehensive approach, i.e. allows me to travel with it, etc. - though I wonder if there are legal alternatives that are less costly, but more restrictive?
Oh yeah, with the legal cost for the paper work, new threaded barrel plus suppressor itself, what's a ballpark cost for a Glock 19?
Please, a bit of education would be most appreciated.
Thanks again!
Re: DIY NFA Trusts
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:30 pm
by Carry-a-Kimber
Abraham wrote:
Is an "NFA trust" the the most comprehensive approach, i.e. allows me to travel with it,etc. though I wonder if there are legal alternatives that are less costly, but more restrictive?
Legally, a trust doesn't give the trustee any more privileges than owning as an individual. However; since the NFA item is owned by the trust, anyone listed on the trust may be in possession of the NFA item. With individual ownership, the ONE person listed on the NFA paperwork must ALWAYS accompany the item unless the item is secured from the access of others.
Oh yeah, with the legal cost for the paper work, new threaded barrel plus suppressor itself, what's a ballpark cost for a Glock 19?
Trust =$0-600
Can= $450-1000
Theaded Barrel= $125 (Lone Wolf Barrel
Stamp=$200
Class 3 Dealer Transfer= $0-100
Re: DIY NFA Trusts
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:08 pm
by Abraham
Carry-a-Kimber,
Thank you very much for the information.
If I added correctly, to obtain all the necessaries to own a suppressor, it'll cost a little over $2000.00 or so if the individual costs are on the high side for all categories considered.
I hope, making it happen, won't add up to that...
I guess, some of the the next questions are, how many rounds of standard (for me: 9 MM)
FMJ target rounds can be fired before the suppressor has to be replaced? Or can they be serviced by the average owner (who's not a gunsmith) with new parts and not cost an arm and a leg...?
And I'm sure there're better quality suppressors that'll hold up longer and give better service.
Does anyone have an idea who manufactures them and perhaps even model No.'s?
Thanks again.
Re: DIY NFA Trusts
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:31 pm
by Wes
If you use Chris Bass (
christopherbass01@gmail.com) for your trust its quick and easy, I used him and glad I did - $300
Then if you use
North Texas armament he can get most items with no transfer fee, did mine anyways - $0
Your barrel and stamp are pretty much fixed costs, NTA filled out all the paperwork to get the stamp and mailed it for me - $200 + $125
As for the can itself, There are ones that are user serviceable, but not really necessary for 9mm. you just have to research and find what you want. You can get a pretty nice one though for around - $600
Re: DIY NFA Trusts
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:18 pm
by Thomas
If people want to pay for peace of mind, that's fine. I enjoy reading the laws and figuring out how to stay legal more so than paying other people to do the same thing for me. Also, if you're a law-abiding person and you are moderately discrete (take your suppressors to the range, keep them bagged and locked up at other times), then you're probably fine, but if you like to live on the edge, brag about your suppressors, conceal carry with them, etc, then you probably want a lawyer to make sure you're 100%.
Re: DIY NFA Trusts
Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:10 am
by Rugrash
I used Quicken Willmaker Plus about 5 years ago and have never had any issues with the approval process on FORM 4's and 1's. I am currently waiting for NFA items number nine and ten to arrive at some point in December.
My understanding is that they (BATFE) are not in the business of determining the legality of the trusts etc. Who knows though...some overzealous prosecutor, LEO, judge etc might make problems for me down the road if an "i" is not dotted or a "t" is not crossed. I do need to make some changes to my trust (add two kids) and I am going to get Sean Cody or someone along those lines to make the changes and make sure that everything is OK. Also if you are going to create a revocable living trust, my advice is to keep your trust name short. I made the mistake of using my full name and it makes it a bit harder for the engraver to fit it all on an SBR.
Good luck!
-Rug
Re: DIY NFA Trusts
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:12 pm
by rm9792
Abraham wrote:Carry-a-Kimber,
Thank you very much for the information.
If I added correctly, to obtain all the necessaries to own a suppressor, it'll cost a little over $2000.00 or so if the individual costs are on the high side for all categories considered.
I hope, making it happen, won't add up to that...
I guess, some of the the next questions are, how many rounds of standard (for me: 9 MM)
FMJ target rounds can be fired before the suppressor has to be replaced? Or can they be serviced by the average owner (who's not a gunsmith) with new parts and not cost an arm and a leg...?
And I'm sure there're better quality suppressors that'll hold up longer and give better service.
Does anyone have an idea who manufactures them and perhaps even model No.'s?
Thanks again.
Most of your questions depend on the suppressor you buy. Some can be taken apart for cleaning, others cant. My YHM doesnt come apart but is simply soaked in solvent and sprayed out. As far as parts go you can service yours if you can get parts but most suppressors I have seen have 2 parts: a monocore and the shell. If you get a baffle strike then you will be sending to the manufacturer for repair. You are going to get what you pay for here and the better ones are usually hundreds more but if you arent military or going to be pumping 1000s of rounds thru it then check the decibel ratings and get what you can afford. My YHM is rated to reduce -35db and some of the more expensive ones were the same rating, just better materials or something. i have a homebuilt one as well to answer you gunsmith comment. Really a suppressor is just a little muffler, you can be as simple as washers in a tube. mine is that way and 9mm is like a nailgun or airsoft sound thru it. Difference though is mine is way bigger than a comaprable commercial one.
My cost was:
Tax Stamp $200
Suppressor $650
No dealer fee since they sold it
I bought a .223 silencer so weapon cost cant really be figured as I have multiple .22s and .223s.
you dont have to do the trust now but if you do it later its another 200 tax stamp to move it. I am looking at $600 in stamps, again, when i do a trust.
Re: DIY NFA Trusts
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:11 pm
by RSJ
Does anyone have a link or case citation to the litigation between the "gun trust lawyers" in TX or other states? I heard there are lawsuits pending, and I am highly interested in the outcome and the effect on my potential practice of law in this area.
Re: DIY NFA Trusts
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:00 pm
by smoothoperator
RSJ wrote:Does anyone have a link or case citation to the litigation between the "gun trust lawyers" in TX or other states? I heard there are lawsuits pending, and I am highly interested in the outcome and the effect on my potential practice of law in this area.
Did he hire Apple's lawyers and their judge?
