The Holy Four Gun Safety Rules are NOT absolutes

[E.Marquez]

They are reminders, and very good ones at that - preparing people for the possible consequences of, say, being unaware of their muzzle direction.

They're not Holy Writ - for example, it's patently untrue that "All guns are always loaded". However, it gets people into the correct frame of mind to treat them as if they *are* always loaded.

I'm reminded of the scene in Blackhawk Down where the Delta operator crokks his finger and says "This is my safety"; for experienced and safety-conscious operators of weapons in certain circumstances, it's a perfectly valid point. However, one size does *not* fit all and some folks like to try and run before they can even toddle, trying to emulate the high-speed guys (or just don't care) and that's when accidents happen.

It's like writing English - you have to know what the rules are and be skilled in their use 'fore you can bend 'em.

This is pretty close to my opinion as well.

Add in,, try, I dare you.. try to carry a loaded gun all day.. and "Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy" it simply is not reality. A good mind set, and a general good idea of course.. But silly to take literally.

On a range, and in GENERAL "Identify your target, and what is behind it" makes perfect sense... anyone who has shot a weapon against an enemy combatant will likely honestly tell you it simply is not possible.. In general yes, make sure your buddy or an innocent is not directly in the line of fire.. OF COURSE (do you need a "rule" to not shoot a kid or your buddy? But with the distance a bullet can travel, and through which many of them we shoot will travel.. The only way you can follow this "rule" is to shoot only on a range where you can observe the bullets path from muzzle to known finial impact.

The Four "rules" of Mr Cooper are great safety reminders, common sense, and good general guidlines.

[papajohn1964]

The article below was written by a trained professional on a closed road track. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!

In another thread, I saw this:

...Sounds like a good time to remember that Cooper's Four Rules apply 100% of the time...

RULE 3: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER TIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
This we call the Golden Rule because its violation is responsible for about 80 percent of the firearms disasters we read about.

Rather than hijack that thread, I thought I'd start a new one.

The four rules are what I teach without hesitation to new shooters. They are absolutely correct for anyone who is of a defensive mindset or may ever need to be. They are the perfect starting point and I freely acknowledge that the overwhelming majority of shooters have no need to ever grow past that starting point.

However, I never see it acknowledged that they
were solely designed around combat shooting and training for combat shooting and codified by a man who viewed handguns as weapons, period, full stop. In fact, there's a nearby thread with 120 posts and not one person who posted there has thought deeply enough into the topic to realize that maybe, just maybe, there are times when firearms are used for something other than combat or training for combat.

Precision pistol shooting is completely different.

You align iron sights on the target differently. You hold the gun differently. And for most of those games, Rule 3 sure as heck DOES NOT apply. If you're going to win anything major on the pistol line at Camp Perry at any time in the future, you sure as heck will put that finger on the trigger LONG before the sights are on the target. Beyond NRA Conventional Pistol, if you shoot any of the ISSF games that can get you to a World Cup or the Olympics then the same thing is true. Fingers, quite properly, go on triggers long before the sights are on target. I don't know a single high-level coach for Conventional Pistol or for (say) Free Pistol who doesn't teach that the occasional early shot that hits the ground halfway to the target or the occasional early shot that goes completely over the target isn't simply a part of the learning process. It's no big deal; it's part of the game and part of the learning process. There are limits, of course; put a round through the firing table at a Conventional Pistol match and you'll quite likely be asked to leave. :-)

I guess this is just a personal pet peeve of mine. Far too many people tend to think their little world is the whole world and never give any consideration to the notion that there are other worlds out there where things are correctly done in a different way.

Thus, these infinite re-statements of Rule 3 as Unchallengeable Holy Writ From On High eventually begin to grate on the nerves of people with a little broader range of experience.

Just my thoughts. Nomex on. Flame away.

[recaffeination]

The part that confuses me is how precise can they be if they're pressing the trigger without lining up the sights on target.

[benenglishtx]

The part that confuses me is how precise can they be if they're pressing the trigger without lining up the sights on target.

Good question that deserves a long answer. I don't want to be more of a bore than I have already, so I'll go with the short answer.

The act of putting the finger on the trigger changes the muscle tension in the rest of the hand and thus changes the grip. Put a fingertip from your off hand in the center of your dominant-hand palm then flex the trigger finger you usually use. Feel that muscle motion? It's impossible to disconnect the trigger finger from the rest of the grip but you can minimize the impact on the grip by pre-loading pressure on the trigger, thus minimizing the amount of grip shift as the trigger finger moves that last tenth or hundreth of an inch.

This means nothing for most shooting and "finger off the trigger until the sights are on the target" is a fine default rule. But when you're trying to win a national or international championship and you need to place every shot within less than an inch of point of aim at 25 yards or meters, little things count for a lot.

Here's an instructional video that covers this. It's in French, but you don't have to know the language and you only need to watch the first three minutes or so to see what I'm talking about. There are (sometimes broad) variations to the technique for other disciplines, but this video is for air pistol where the inner 10 ring is 5mm in diameter. When you're shooting a .177" diameter projectile at a scoring ring less than .2" in diameter, little things count for a lot, even if the target distance is "only" 33 feet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD7vNhLh9ao" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[croc870]

I have always taught this as "keep the finger off the trigger until you're willing to fire.". As long as you are ok with a bullet coming out of the gun at the moment you are touching the trigger it is acceptable to be touching the trigger.

[williamkevin]

They are reminders, and very good ones at that - preparing people for the possible consequences of, say, being unaware of their muzzle direction.

They're not Holy Writ - for example, it's patently untrue that "All guns are always loaded". However, it gets people into the correct frame of mind to treat them as if they *are* always loaded.

I'm reminded of the scene in Blackhawk Down where the Delta operator crokks his finger and says "This is my safety"; for experienced and safety-conscious operators of weapons in certain circumstances, it's a perfectly valid point. However, one size does *not* fit all and some folks like to try and run before they can even toddle, trying to emulate the high-speed guys (or just don't care) and that's when accidents happen.

It's like writing English - you have to know what the rules are and be skilled in their use 'fore you can bend 'em.

This is pretty close to my opinion as well.

Add in,, try, I dare you.. try to carry a loaded gun all day.. and "Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy" it simply is not reality. A good mind set, and a general good idea of course.. But silly to take literally.

On a range, and in GENERAL "Identify your target, and what is behind it" makes perfect sense... anyone who has shot a weapon against an enemy combatant will likely honestly tell you it simply is not possible.. In general yes, make sure your buddy or an innocent is not directly in the line of fire.. OF COURSE (do you need a "rule" to not shoot a kid or your buddy? But with the distance a bullet can travel, and through which many of them we shoot will travel.. The only way you can follow this "rule" is to shoot only on a range where you can observe the bullets path from muzzle to known finial impact.

The Four "rules" of Mr Cooper are great safety reminders, common sense, and good general guidlines.

I am in this camp.

[doc540]

Oh, good grief.

Talk about making a non-issue an issue.

I teach firearms safety, and I shoot competitively.

The reason we teach shooters not to put their finger on the trigger until on the target is simple:

It teaches trigger discipline.

When I shoot silhouette matches, IDPA, and Bianchi Cup I sometimes put my finger on the trigger before it's fully on the target.

But you can bet your last dollar I don't put my finger on the trigger until I'm so close to being on the target it's safe.

I think it's silly this hair has been split.

Again, it's all about trigger discipline instead of looking for a reason to say the rule isn't an absolute.

[bizarrenormality]

I don't want to be anywhere near people who think a negligent discharge is OK as long as it's the first one of the day.

[benenglishtx]

Oh, good grief.
Talk about making a non-issue an issue.
...
I think it's silly this hair has been split.

I agree and I'm the one who split the hair in the first place. I was inspired by the nearby thread with 200 posts where *Every* *Single* *Respondent* parrotted the line that the four rules are absolute and must never be violated. Given the right circumstances, that's wrong and can be downright stupid. People should be able to think for themselves better than that.

I was curious, so I started this thread and found out, much to my relief, that there are people around here capable of thinking more deeply than just "Cooper said it; I believe it; that settles it."

In case anyone missed it, that's a compliment. I'm new around here and most of the well-considered (or just really snappy) replies to this thread have helped me understand that the folks hereabouts are sharper than that other thread made them appear. That's a good thing and makes me a lot happier that I found this forum.

[Shinesintx]

i once shot a hole in my ceiling with a shotgun. Because I followed the 3 other rules...no one was injured. Learned a valuable lesson that day.

[doc540]

Ben, the thing is.... a lot of folks here are new to shooting - or concealed-carry, or competitive shooting, or hunting, etc, etc.

You'll appreciate the fact that we try to emphasize safety above all, because if we try to discuss too advanced a technique/topic/philosophy out in public, the risk is that there *will* be someone who will want to try it out before they've reached the point where they can use the info competently, maturely and safely. The other side is that you could get piled on by the less-advanced for espousing something that, to them at their level, is dangerous - and it's tedious justifying it.

"tedious"...now, that's the word I was looking for!

[cbunt1]

I don't want to be anywhere near people who think a negligent discharge is OK as long as it's the first one of the day.

To further refine the hair-splitting....

What they were referring to, in the context of "launching one into the ground in front of the target" in the discipline of conventional outdoor pistol (also known as NRA Bullseye) or other disciplines, is what I (along with some pretty experienced, well respected, professionals) would call an ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE...

There is a difference between an ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE and a NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE. (guess I should go ahead an don the flame suit).

A negligent discharge is just that--the shooter did NOT intend the gun to fire. They are ALWAYS the fault of the shooter. There may be more fault to go around (how long do you inspect the dirty muzzle you're being shown before you react?), but in short, you had your finger on the trigger when you had not made the decision to fire a shot. It's really that simple. If it's due to a mechanical problem with the gun (very rare, but hey, it happens--especially in competition gear due to wear and "right on the edge" configurations), then it may be ACCIDENTAL, or it may be NEGLIGENT...

An ACCIDENTAL discharge is either the result of a mechanical failure (sear broke? Hammer hooks wore too short?), or, more commonly, is the result of training on the edge. That is to say "I meant for the gun to fire...just not QUITE YET"). An Accidental Discharge, in this context, can ONLY happen in a controlled environment.

As an example of a true AD...in competitive training, one of the ways to improve your overall "draw-to-shot" time is to prep/stage the trigger as part of the process of extending the gun from the draw. Again, the muzzle is pointed at a berm, the sights are (more-or-less) on target, whether you can see them yet or not, and the environment is CONTROLLED. As you begin to extend to a full firing stance, you begin to take up slack in the trigger (you put 4.5 pounds into your 5# trigger, for example) AS YOU EXTEND, and as soon as you like the sight picture, you add that extra 1/2# and break the shot. If you train HARD ENOUGH on this, you will break a few shots before you're at full extension. If you don't, you don't know what it feels like to go "over the edge"...

I've also worked with professional trainers on shooting from behind cover. As part of that, we were set up (safely) to shoot THROUGH the cover (cardboard, in this case) under the mindset of "if you've never shot a wall, you don't know just how close you can work with the wall and *NOT* shoot the wall."

So, I agree that it's all about environment, and situation. There *IS* a difference between an Accidental Discharge, and a Negligent Discharge. You might say that an AD requires a certain level of pre-planning.

That said, the four rules are still absolute...as an instructor, I teach them as such, as a range officer, I enforce them as such, as a shooter, I obey them as such. And in those competitive/training environments, we all watch each other, and continually remind each other when necessary...and trust me, on the edge, it is occasionally necessary, and always appreciated by all--especially by the guy who you just pointed out his finger on the trigger during his lightening fast mag change.

Sorry. Didn't mean to write another of my novels...it's a subject I'm passionate about :)

[cbunt1]

Ben, the thing is.... a lot of folks here are new to shooting - or concealed-carry, or competitive shooting, or hunting, etc, etc.

You'll appreciate the fact that we try to emphasize safety above all, because if we try to discuss too advanced a technique/topic/philosophy out in public, the risk is that there *will* be someone who will want to try it out before they've reached the point where they can use the info competently, maturely and safely. The other side is that you could get piled on by the less-advanced for espousing something that, to them at their level, is dangerous - and it's tedious justifying it.

"tedious"...now, that's the word I was looking for!

I love when like-minded folks come together. Both of you say it much more succinctly than I do.

[Keith B]

What I teach is that the main four are absolutes, BECAUSE, everyone can make a mistake. If you try to follow all four and happen to accidentally break one of them, the remaining rules should keep an ND and damage negligible if you DO have one.