TexasCHLforum.com

alvins wrote: from what ive been told if your working on any firearms and they drop it off and keep it over night you need an ffl. if you are simply working on it with the owner there then its not a problem....only what ive been told.

I think you've been told wrong. I have not seen this mentioned anywhere on the ATF website. So, if I have a Gunsmith while you wait business, I don't need an FFL?

alvins wrote:from what ive been told if your working on any firearms and they drop it off and keep it over night you need an ffl. if you are simply working on it with the owner there then its not a problem....only what ive been told.

You are getting two different issues mixed up.

First, anyone doing business as a gunsmith (full-time or part-time doesn't matter) must be licensed. Does not matter if the customer is present or not.

Second, if the gun is left overnight, it must be logged (transferred) in the gunsmith's bound book, and then logged out of the book when the customer gets the gun back. If the gun is not left overnight, then there is no need to enter it in the bound book.

sunny beach wrote:

Dealer. Any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail; any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms; or any person who is a pawnbroker. The term shall include any person who engages in such business or occupation on a part-time basis.

In another thread, people were saying the occasional sale to somebody else didn't require a FFL so how can the occasional repair for somebody else require a FFL?

I understand from conversation that he is taking money and/or barter, and the definition of 'friend' is used loosely. His dad (my co-worker) tells me he's not the brightest lamp in the fixture.

OldCannon wrote:I'd suggest he gets himself measured for an orange jumpsuit, but I reckon he won't spend much time in it.

RX8er wrote:I think there is a difference between being an armorer and gunsmith but I don;t know if the ATF sees it that way. I also think there are clear rules that separate what a gunsmith can or cannot do. The ATF has great FAQ on this. If your bud is charging, then the ATF has a case and if it is "helping" out free of charge, then he may beat the rap. There is also a huge problem when you mention the NFA items no matter how you phrase it. This can/will get him tossed in jail real quick. You cannot even make yourself an NFA item for your own use without an FFL for manufacturing and your Class III.

EDIT: Jumping Frog posted the link to the ATF FAQ.

Yes you can make your own Suppressor and SBR. I have doen so and gotten the stamp for it. You are not supposed to sell the suppressors but it isnt illegal.


Edit: sorry, I jumped the gun. Others already correct you. However there is no rule on holding guns overnight. I store several peoples guns in my safe, clean them, repair them when they break, etc. All for free (including barter) so no business, no "gunsmithing".

rm9792 wrote: Edit: sorry, I jumped the gun. Others already correct you. However there is no rule on holding guns overnight. I store several peoples guns in my safe, clean them, repair them when they break, etc. All for free (including barter) so no business, no "gunsmithing".

If the ATF ever knocks on your door, that's not gonna fly. Then you can say goodbye to your gun collection, whatever guns your friends left with you, and pretty much your bank account and beyond. You might beat the rap, but you'll go broke. The kind of "broke" you never recover from.

Spend the $300 and get a license. Much cheaper.

rm9792 wrote: Edit: sorry, I jumped the gun. Others already correct you. However there is no rule on holding guns overnight. I store several peoples guns in my safe, clean them, repair them when they break, etc. All for free (including barter) so no business, no "gunsmithing".

First, thanks for pointing that out again. I corrected myself as well.

Second, if it is for remuneration, and that is what we have been talking about, then there are rules on guns left overnight. If the gun is left overnight, it must be logged in to the gunsmith book and logged out of the book when the customer picks up the gun. If the gun is not left overnight, then there is no need to enter it in the record book.

OldCannon wrote:

rm9792 wrote: Edit: sorry, I jumped the gun. Others already correct you. However there is no rule on holding guns overnight. I store several peoples guns in my safe, clean them, repair them when they break, etc. All for free (including barter) so no business, no "gunsmithing".

If the ATF ever knocks on your door, that's not gonna fly. Then you can say goodbye to your gun collection, whatever guns your friends left with you, and pretty much your bank account and beyond. You might beat the rap, but you'll go broke. The kind of "broke" you never recover from.

Spend the $300 and get a license. Much cheaper.

I will take my chances unless someone shows me the overnight rule in the book. There is no rule against me keeping someone elses gun for free. These are regular guns, not class 3. So if your son asks you to keep his rifles while he goes to Europe for two weeks you just committed a felony? No.
How many of us on this board have had someone else help them out with building an AR or fixing a recalcitrant 1911? None of that was illegal unless you received some sort of compensation. One of the beauties of this forum is that most people present their case with cites and don't usually spout hearsay or Urban Legend (except newbies). I just spent an hour searching the ATF.Gov site and there was no mention of needing a license for storing firearms for free.
from atf site:
Q: Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms?
Yes. A person conducting such activities as a business is considered to be a gunsmith within the definition of a dealer.
As applied to a gunsmith, the term “engaged in the business” is defined by 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(21)(D) and 27 CFR 478.11 as a “person who devotes time, attention, and labor to engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit …”

Although, I do get compensated in a way, if it stays at my house I get to shoot it.