TexasCHLforum.com

wgoforth wrote:

srothstein wrote:Not legal. No one can give another person permission to break the law. There are clauses in the law for owners and managers (not every employee, but not much legal definition of a manager) but no such clause for customers.

I know several gun shops where all the employees open carry. Is it different for some reason in a gun shop, or simply breaking the law but no one complaining?

But then what is lawful and what you can get away with do not necessarily coincide.

Wow, so we've given up private property rights now?

Yes, it's not illegal if the owner has given you permission to carry openly within the property he owns or controls, assuming you are not otherwise prohibited from possessing a gun.

If I'm wrong, that means there is law that makes it illegal so you'll be able to point me to it. Right? and :D

BTW, you don't need a license to drive a car either, regardless of age, if you're driving on private property. Don't throw in the towel yet, private property rights still exist.

Maybe I am wrong but I don't think an owner can give permission. Everything in PC §46.02 that I have read is only about your personal property of property under your control and says you are breaking the law if you are anywhere else.

A person commits an offense of unlawfully carrying a weapon if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun on or about his or her person unless the person is on one’s own premise or premises under the person’s control or inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person’s control.

It's been said before. Take what you read on these responses with a grain of salt because most here are not lawyers.

RX8er wrote:Maybe I am wrong but I don't think an owner can give permission. Everything in PC §46.02 that I have read is only about your personal property of property under your control and says you are breaking the law if you are anywhere else.

A person commits an offense of unlawfully carrying a weapon if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun on or about his or her person unless the person is on one’s own premise or premises under the person’s control or inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person’s control.

It's been said before. Take what you read on these responses with a grain of salt because most here are not lawyers.

The owner controls his own property and can give you permission. Criminal offenses are a different story....an owner can not give you permission to murder someone just as they can't murder someone on their own property or not. :D I know that's extreme....

JKTex wrote:The owner controls his own property and can give you permission. Criminal offenses are a different story....an owner can not give you permission to murder someone just as they can't murder someone on their own property or not. :D I know that's extreme....

You have the principle right but misapplied it to carrying. Carrying a gun openly is a criminal offense because it is a violation of the Penal Code. Just as the owner, or even the victim, cannot give you permission to commit a murder, they cannot give you permission to violate nay other criminal law, like PC 46.02.

JKTex wrote:If I'm wrong, that means there is law that makes it illegal so you'll be able to point me to it. Right? and :D

That's easy.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

Just a straight up answer would be cool. Can I legally give my employees permission to open carry on my company premises? Wait... Lets put it another way. Can my employees legally open carry on my company premises with my permission?

You can give them permission but it has the same legal weight as giving them permission to openly smoke marijuana on your company premises.

03Lightningrocks wrote:Just a straight up answer would be cool. Can I legally give my employees permission to open carry on my company premises? Wait... Lets put it another way. Can my employees legally open carry on my company premises with my permission?

I don't know, but I wonder if you could call one of the gun shops that allow their employees to OC and ask them under what authority or law they are able to do that. They might not be able to legally do it, but it's a case of no complaint to foul. I am kind of curious about all the LE I've seen in stores like that and they didn't say anything. I wonder if they don't know it's illegal or if it really is legal.

The gun shop deal is what gave me the opinion I could give permission on my property. Maybe it is different but I am pretty sure I can give anyone on my personal property permission to open carry. Since I pay rent for our offices, I thought this made it my property. I own the business.

One thing is for sure. I am now thoroughly confused.

C-dub wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:Just a straight up answer would be cool. Can I legally give my employees permission to open carry on my company premises? Wait... Lets put it another way. Can my employees legally open carry on my company premises with my permission?

I don't know, but I wonder if you could call one of the gun shops that allow their employees to OC and ask them under what authority or law they are able to do that. They might not be able to legally do it, but it's a case of no complaint to foul. I am kind of curious about all the LE I've seen in stores like that and they didn't say anything. I wonder if they don't know it's illegal or if it really is legal.

When I first saw it, I asked. They told me because it was private property and they gave permission on their property just like if it were at their house. Of course that is begging the question, but was their rational.

03Lightningrocks wrote:Just a straight up answer would be cool. Can I legally give my employees permission to open carry on my company premises? Wait... Lets put it another way. Can my employees legally open carry on my company premises with my permission?

I believe you CAN because as an employer, you can delegate your authority to control you premises to any or all of your employees. Otherwise, who would control it when you weren't there? Or were there but distracted with other business? It's different than authorizing a customer or visitor to carry, as they are not "in control" of your premises.

In another thread a couple years ago, I argued that a homeowner or other property owner ought to be able to delegate control of his property or premises to a visitor even when he was there. The consensus seemed to be that by the letter of the law, he could not... I believe Charles expressed this opinion as well, though he qualified it by saying it was not likely to be an issue.

I think this is how gun shops do this for their employees... There's even section in 46.15 (non-applicability) for an employee of a licensed establishment selling or serving alcohol to carry (openly or otherwise).

I think you deserve a fair answer to your question and this is my opinion based on my layperson's reading of the law.

Well, hopefully Charles will weigh in. But, If the person who has care, custody and control of the property allows you to open carry on his property then I say you are ok to do so.
If I was still a LEO and someone called me to the scene about a person displaying a firearm, and it turns out to be an open carry and the property owner informed me that he gave the suspect permission. I would say have a nice day.. I am going back to the donut shop.

Hasn't everyone here either seen or opened carried themselves at a gun range? If there isn't specific legislation against it, as in the case of establishments that serve alcohol, why would it be different for a public gun range vs. some other business?

EEllis wrote:Hasn't everyone here either seen or opened carried themselves at a gun range? If there isn't specific legislation against it, as in the case of establishments that serve alcohol, why would it be different for a public gun range vs. some other business?

There is an exception in 46.15 for engaging in a "sporting activity", like target shooting.