Anti gun sentiment

[Sarah81]

I'm going to have to say "no" on compulsory service. When I was in the Army in 2001, I trained/served with people who were only in the Army because judges had told them to either enlist or go to jail/prison. These men and women were terrible soldiers. Yeah, they had free will. Yeah, they chose to enlist. But their hearts and souls weren't in it.

And this was in peacetime (early 2001), so it wasn't a matter of them changing their minds/attitudes because of 9/11. (They were terrible soldiers long before the terrorist attacks.)

Yes, compulsory service would eventually benefit society at large. But we civilians are not the ones who have to train, work and fight beside men and women who do not want to be there and will do everything in their power to get out.

[Liberty]

I'm going to have to say "no" on compulsory service. When I was in the Army in 2001, I trained/served with people who were only in the Army because judges had told them to either enlist or go to jail/prison. These men and women were terrible soldiers. Yeah, they had free will. Yeah, they chose to enlist. But their hearts and souls weren't in it.

And this was in peacetime (early 2001), so it wasn't a matter of them changing their minds/attitudes because of 9/11. (They were terrible soldiers long before the terrorist attacks.)

Yes, compulsory service would eventually benefit society at large. But we civilians are not the ones who have to train, work and fight beside men and women who do not want to be there and will do everything in their power to get out.

I was a volunteer in a draft time army.. It was a terrible idea then and even worse idea now.

[Geister]

I think that this country should force milltary service like Switzerland or Isreal where everyone has to serve for a time when they are 18. We would have less obesity and spend less on related health care. More importantly everyone would have to shoot a gun and make their own mind up.

Let me get this straight: you don't want anti-gun avocades to physically force their views on you, but you want to physically force EVERYONE into joining the military? That's no different at all. In fact, I don't see how your opinion is any better than the anti-gun advocates.

Maybe once all of us are forced into service, all of our political parties can start wearing armbands and having huge political rallies and book burnings.

[fadlan12]

lighten up frances! I think this has gotten off track, I only wished that people could take all media with a grain of salt and be subjective when it comes to political hot topics.

[Geister]

This hasn't gotten off topic at all, fadlan12. You suggested that someone ought to put a gun to me and tell me to join the military. This ain't China.

[fadlan12]

Really so you are going to shoot someone if you get drafted? I think the draft age limit is now 36 with a voluntary sign up limit of 42.

Yes The topic is anti gun sentiment and the idea about mandatory millitary is not a good idea. This is a very hot topic for some and it is a free country thank God.

My point is that so many parents have a negative of view about the issue and then they have kids with an irational fear of guns and then I have to work with those adult kids. Generations of children who are anti become politicians, leos and teachers. So take a nieghbor kid to the range with you, do your part.

[stevie_d_64]

Hey, I know something that can get this back on track...Actually two things...

The Houston CBS affiliate "again" reported distortions, lies, and a very biased account on the CHL parking lot bill (HB992) thats up for a vote this week...

Not one person interviewed that had a positive "pro" side on the issue...But then again, I and most others here would not be surprised...But I went to go grab a link to the story, and boom, no story...They had every other bit they did this morning on the news, but not this report...Kinda makes you go hmmmmmm...

Or...

We can lock the thread...I believe a little off-tangent discussion is cool...Keeps us frosty, on our toes...

I actually prefer discussion, than locking a thread down...But thats just my opinion...

[Big Calhoun]

I don't think you'll ever see the media, as a whole, not work to promote some type of agenda. I can still remember watching my grandparents switching between CBS, ABC, and NBC when I was younger and noticing the various slants on the same stories. IMO, the media will respond to who they feel are their bigget viewers by reporting on stories they feel interest them and in a manner that keeps them at least emotionally engaged.

At the same time, I think the firearm community, as a whole, can make a lot of moves to promote itself and attract new supporters. Consider this: I'd say maybe 10 years ago or so, I can remember searching the Internet for firearm related websites and just about every one I came across at the time was associated with the nationalist movement. As a young black male, I was completely turned off and intimidated. At the same time, most stories you read or heard about guns involved 'militias' or some good ole boy from an obscure county. There wasn't anything 'inviting'. Even today, firearms are still associated with older white men, and young single females, and a dozen or so negative stereotypes.

IMO, now is the time for 'reconciliation', so to speak -- it's the time to promote firearm knowledge, safety, and sport as a mainstream activity. Sheep are sheep, but why not lead the sheep instead of watching them go to the slaughter? Granted, some people will never change their opinion and others are prone to believing anything they're told or read. But I just can't help but think if the 'face' of the gun movement changed, there would be those that could be reached who would feel comfortable exploring it on their own instead of feeling like it's all part of some secret society.

[Geister]

This is a very hot topic for some and it is a free country thank God.

If it was up to you, with your forced military service, it wouldn't be a free country any longer.

Some people just don't understand what freedom means anymore. I guess they think being able to watch 200 different TV channels constitutes freedom.

[stevie_d_64]

IMO, now is the time for 'reconciliation', so to speak -- it's the time to promote firearm knowledge, safety, and sport as a mainstream activity. Sheep are sheep, but why not lead the sheep instead of watching them go to the slaughter? Granted, some people will never change their opinion and others are prone to believing anything they're told or read. But I just can't help but think if the 'face' of the gun movement changed, there would be those that could be reached who would feel comfortable exploring it on their own instead of feeling like it's all part of some secret society.

Well stated! I agree...

But maybe instead of thinking that the "face" of the gun movement has changed...I believe it is more accurate that the "face" has become more diversified, better defined...And in some cases I honestly believe some facets internal to our community have become a little fragmented...And some of us know where those divisions are...

That maybe where some of the divisiveness could be within our community...And we'd better all get on the same track, or we all suffer...

You get the "Post of the Day" award!

[fadlan12]

Are you somehow wronged by the gvt? do you have some other agenda bringing this topic back up? Tell me how bad it is. uncle fadlan is here to listen.


get real Geister, no-one is trying to make you do anything.

[stevie_d_64]

You two gentlemen just can't let it go can you...Thats cool...

Thats why we have this PM system...

Even though I (and many others) can respect both your points of view...I would not be surprised if this thread becomes locked by the time I get to the house...And "Big C" and I (and the others watching) will have to carry on our conversation in another thread I suppose...Thats fine...

I will be sad, but I will get over it, because thats just the kind of person I am I suppose...

[Geister]

get real Geister, no-one is trying to make you do anything.

Thank God because you're not in power. Let's look at your statement again:

"I think that this country should force milltary service like Switzerland or Isreal where everyone has to serve for a time when they are 18."

You are initiating physical force against people who have not harmed you in any way. Your logic is no different than the gun control advocates.

[Geister]

Steve,

All I'm trying to say is that you can't go both ways with that logic. Someone can't tell me they're against gun control, which is basically initiating physical force against law-abiding citizens, and then at the same time tell me tell me that they approve of forced military conscription, which is also initiating physical force against law-abiding citizens. Either which way you're supporting the use of force to restrict the freedoms of citizens.

Just because someone despises firearms doesn't mean you should force them into liking them. They have a right not to like firearms, and I don't mind that one bit. But I do mind it when they try to force their dislike of firearms onto me with needless, "feel good" laws. At the same time, I'm sure that they will mind it if we forced them into mandatory firearms training.

So let's not start using the same tactics gun control advocates use on us.

I've already said pretty much what I've wanted to say on this subject and it still ties into a general gun discussion, so at this point I don't think it warrants a separate discussion via PM.