TexasCHLforum.com

frankie_the_yankee wrote:

txinvestigator wrote: You are completely wrong. There is no law prohibiting a government agency frim posting a 30.06 law. There is no penalty or crime if a government entity posts a 30.06.

30.06 simply makes it an exception to the application of 30.06 if the location is a placed owned or leased by a government entity.

The real point is (and one I missed in my previous post) that a 30.06 sign posted at a school could be ignored by a CHL holder.

I guess I didn't phrase my thought precisely. What I meant was that such a sign would not have the force of law for CHL holders, NOT that it would be a crime for a government agency to post it.

roger that!

NcongruNt wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:

Venus Pax wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:
There is a provision in the law NOW that with written permission a CHL holder CAN carry.

I don't know of any administrator that would touch that with a ten foot pole.

I agree; therein, lies the problem. Even if carry at schools was NOT prohibited by penal code, every school would just post 30.06.

But since most schools are government-owned, wouldn't those 30.06 signs not be legally binding, and improperly posted?

In Texas, public schools (ISDs specifically) are not government owned. All property owned by the ISD is legally owned by the school board of trustees.

Kyle Brown wrote:

NcongruNt wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:

Venus Pax wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:
There is a provision in the law NOW that with written permission a CHL holder CAN carry.

I don't know of any administrator that would touch that with a ten foot pole.

I agree; therein, lies the problem. Even if carry at schools was NOT prohibited by penal code, every school would just post 30.06.

But since most schools are government-owned, wouldn't those 30.06 signs not be legally binding, and improperly posted?

In Texas, public schools (ISDs specifically) are not government owned. All property owned by the ISD is legally owned by the school board of trustees.

I admit, I need an education about this, but is not the board of trustees a government entity? They collect taxes, have elected representatives, etc, etc?

A school district IS a government entity.

Working in a school all day, it was very unnerving to watch the Virginia Tech events unfold yesterday. What happened there could happen at any and every school in Texas tomorrow! There is nothing/no one to stop it from happening. Any guys, THAT scares me! Knowing that I would be unable to stop it from happening or even being able to try to stop it.

I retire next year after 33 years in the school business and I am so ready to be out. So many changes in 33 years.

Joe

The press coverage just keeps raising more questions:

First off, if there's just been a double murder, wouldn't you at least look around the area fairly carefully to make sure the killer isn't hiding nearby? At least checking accessible areas out to a few minutes' walking distance seems logical.

CNN wrote:"We forced ourselves against the door so he couldn't come in again, because the door would not lock."

I've heard descriptions also of the classroom doors not even having locks, which seems odd; every school I've ever been in had locks on all of the classroom doors if for no other reason than to let the janitors keep people off fresh floor wax.

MSNBC wrote:The man’s two guns, which were bought in Virginia and whose serial numbers had been obliterated,

Then how do they know where they were bought? If the dealer came forward, he will have a record of the SNs.

MSNBC wrote:About 2½ hours later, police responded to a 911 call reporting that shots had been fired at Norris Hall, an engineering classroom building about a half-mile away on the opposite end of the 2,600-acre campus.

By my math, the opposite end of 2,600 acres is going to be a lot more than a half-mile away regardless of the shape. Looking at the map, it's not nearly as dramatic as it sounds in the story; assuming he went straight from the dorm to the classes, (and, IMO, it sounds like he might have even left campus for more ammo in between) it would just mean passing a couple more dorms and the drill field.

MSNBC wrote:Officers forced their way in and followed the sound of gunshots to the second floor, where they found the gunman, who had shot himself in the face.

Convenient that he was still shooting when they got in, but had shot himself by the time they got upstairs.

MSNBC wrote:Noll told NBC affiliate WAVY-TV if Hampton Roads that he was only 70 yards away when two police cars raced up outside the engineering building. “They got out of the car and took their shotguns out and started firing,” he said.

Firing at what? According to the prior quote, the gunman was dead when the first cop laid eyes on him. Were they just dumping ammo into the building that they knew was still full of victims, or what?

(I might have ignored that guy's quote, but the video from http://www.mtv.com/overdrive/?vid=143565 sure makes it sound like at least that last shot isn't nearly as muffled as the others...like it was fired from outside)

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/us/0704/ ... h.irpt.jpg

Umm...do I really need to point out what's wrong in this picture? Hint; it wasn't taken by a remote, unmanned camera. At least his finger appears to be well clear of the trigger.

Edited to add:
If the guy's student visa was issued last year, why did the fingerprint check come up empty? Don't they take prints for visas?

Also mentioned on CombatCarry, why would somebody planning on a shooting spree/suicide combo bother to ditch his ID and file the SNs off the guns?

And, it's interesting to note that the caption for that last pic says it was taken at a dorm - no dorms are within scattergun range of the engineering building. Since the officer didn't feel the need to grip the forend, (or even be particularly ready to) but did feel the urgency to have the gun "up" in an unsafe direction, it's probably not a bad assumption that he already had a round chambered.

txinvestigator wrote:

Kyle Brown wrote:

NcongruNt wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:

Venus Pax wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:
There is a provision in the law NOW that with written permission a CHL holder CAN carry.

I don't know of any administrator that would touch that with a ten foot pole.

I agree; therein, lies the problem. Even if carry at schools was NOT prohibited by penal code, every school would just post 30.06.

But since most schools are government-owned, wouldn't those 30.06 signs not be legally binding, and improperly posted?

In Texas, public schools (ISDs specifically) are not government owned. All property owned by the ISD is legally owned by the school board of trustees.

I admit, I need an education about this, but is not the board of trustees a government entity? They collect taxes, have elected representatives, etc, etc?

A school district IS a government entity.

Txi, I made this remark in another thread here recently.

Texas public school "law" is very interesting to say the least. It is full of "holes" and lacks definition in certain areas, all of which, in my opinion, is by design.

In short, both real and personal public school property is not owned by the state or any government entity. All rights and titles to public school property is vested in the board of trustees and their successors. The board of trustees has the exclusive power and duty to oversee the management of the public schools and said property in their respective districts. Therefore, the property is private property.

In my opinion, any ISD board of trustees my elect to post their private property with a TPC 30.06 sign and enforce the same.

Therefore, an ISD is not a government entity. I look at it as a private entity, not unlike a private corporation, which functions at the will and pleasure of the electorate BUT as such, must function under the rules governing education if it is to be accredited.

Kyle Brown wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:

Kyle Brown wrote:

NcongruNt wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:

Venus Pax wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:
There is a provision in the law NOW that with written permission a CHL holder CAN carry.

I don't know of any administrator that would touch that with a ten foot pole.

I agree; therein, lies the problem. Even if carry at schools was NOT prohibited by penal code, every school would just post 30.06.

But since most schools are government-owned, wouldn't those 30.06 signs not be legally binding, and improperly posted?

In Texas, public schools (ISDs specifically) are not government owned. All property owned by the ISD is legally owned by the school board of trustees.

I admit, I need an education about this, but is not the board of trustees a government entity? They collect taxes, have elected representatives, etc, etc?

A school district IS a government entity.

Txi, I made this remark in another thread here recently.

Texas public school "law" is very interesting to say the least. It is full of "holes" and lacks definition in certain areas, all of which, in my opinion, is by design.

In short, both real and personal public school property is not owned by the state or any government entity. All rights and titles to public school property is vested in the board of trustees and their successors. The board of trustees has the exclusive power and duty to oversee the management of the public schools and said property in their respective districts. Therefore, the property is private property.

In my opinion, any ISD board of trustees my elect to post their private property with a TPC 30.06 sign and enforce the same.

Therefore, an ISD is not a government entity. I look at it as a private entity, not unlike a private corporation, which functions at the will and pleasure of the electorate BUT as such, must function under the rules governing education if it is to be accredited.

Humm, I must disagree. An ISD charges taxes, has an elected board, and has other benefits of a government entity. They receive State and Federal funding. Many have their own police department. Private entities cannot do that.

Kyle Brown wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:

Kyle Brown wrote:

NcongruNt wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:

Venus Pax wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:
There is a provision in the law NOW that with written permission a CHL holder CAN carry.

I don't know of any administrator that would touch that with a ten foot pole.

I agree; therein, lies the problem. Even if carry at schools was NOT prohibited by penal code, every school would just post 30.06.

But since most schools are government-owned, wouldn't those 30.06 signs not be legally binding, and improperly posted?

In Texas, public schools (ISDs specifically) are not government owned. All property owned by the ISD is legally owned by the school board of trustees.

I admit, I need an education about this, but is not the board of trustees a government entity? They collect taxes, have elected representatives, etc, etc?

A school district IS a government entity.

Txi, I made this remark in another thread here recently.

Texas public school "law" is very interesting to say the least. It is full of "holes" and lacks definition in certain areas, all of which, in my opinion, is by design.

In short, both real and personal public school property is not owned by the state or any government entity. All rights and titles to public school property is vested in the board of trustees and their successors. The board of trustees has the exclusive power and duty to oversee the management of the public schools and said property in their respective districts. Therefore, the property is private property.

In my opinion, any ISD board of trustees my elect to post their private property with a TPC 30.06 sign and enforce the same.

Therefore, an ISD is not a government entity. I look at it as a private entity, not unlike a private corporation, which functions at the will and pleasure of the electorate BUT as such, must function under the rules governing education if it is to be accredited.

Why would they set it up that way? To have the rights of a private institution while in all actuality being a public institution? How does this help a school at all (beyond being able to post 30.06, I guess)? I'm sure the applications are there, but it seems to me there would have to be a single big factor/benefit to go through all the trouble of setting up this gobbeldygook system the way you described it.

I work on a small private university campus and I'm VERY tempted to request written permission to carry on campus.

Anybody have any suggestions as to how to word a request?

I wouldn't think that a request like that would be approved. Although I support it 100%, just think of the reaction of parents and even other faculty members just knowing that there is a firearm on campus. I believe that even if they tried to keep it all a secret, it is only a matter of time before word gets out. The parents really don't know you.. they don't know of your mental stability and competency when using a firearm. If you have been employed there long enough, that might be a helpful factor.. but it just makes people uneasy knowing that someone there has a weapon.

Good luck. Be persuasive. I wish we all could carry everywhere!

I'm confused guys. I sent the Chief of Police at my University a lengthy e-mail last night telling her why CHL holders needs to be allowed to carry on campus. She e-mails me back and says that it isn't just UTD policy.. it's actually TX STATE LAW. I thought it was the exact opposite, that Texas law allowed but most universities did not?

I believe that law has been on the books since 1895.

thatguyjosh wrote:I'm confused guys. I sent the Chief of Police at my University a lengthy e-mail last night telling her why CHL holders needs to be allowed to carry on campus. She e-mails me back and says that it isn't just UTD policy.. it's actually TX STATE LAW. I thought it was the exact opposite, that Texas law allowed but most universities did not?

To quote txinvestigator from this thread:

Texas Penal Code
§46.03. Places weapons prohibited.

(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal
knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):

(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational
institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by
a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger
transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether
the school or educational institution is public or private, unless
pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the
institution;

I just don't understand why it is that Texas has such a problem with allowing CHL holders to protect themselves, and others, in schools. Is it going to take a local school massacre to drive the point home????

Utah allows Concealed Firearm Permit holders to carry in schools. No, I take that back... they don't "allow", they ENCOURAGE it!!! School teachers and administrators get their CFPs for FREE.

It's time for our legislature to wake up and see that Gun Free School Zone laws do not protect our students from psychos who don't care about the law!

(Stepping off soapbox now.)

hi-power wrote:

thatguyjosh wrote:I'm confused guys. I sent the Chief of Police at my University a lengthy e-mail last night telling her why CHL holders needs to be allowed to carry on campus. She e-mails me back and says that it isn't just UTD policy.. it's actually TX STATE LAW. I thought it was the exact opposite, that Texas law allowed but most universities did not?

To quote txinvestigator from this thread:

Texas Penal Code
§46.03. Places weapons prohibited.

(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal
knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):

(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational
institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by
a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger
transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether
the school or educational institution is public or private, unless
pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the
institution;

Hello hi-power,

I read the section that txinvestigator posted, and I have on question. Does this mean the university can issue authorization on a case by case basis, or that they can authorize for all CHL holder on the entire campus to carry?

I want to get all my ducks in a row before I reply back to the Chief.

Thanks