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45 minutes?? "When seconds count..."

Abraham wrote:WildBill,

I hear ya, so why I wonder did the dispatcher give out such very bad advice regarding self defense with a gun?

Lib mindset?

I am assuming that most dispatcher are entry level type jobs.
The odds are is that the dispatcher has not handled or fired a gun.
What advice would you like?

[Tongue in Cheek]
"Okay, you are armed. Make sure you follow the four safety rules.
Make sure you don't shoot an innocent bystander or yourself!
Make sure you put your hands up when the police arrive or they
might shoot you."

Redneck_Buddha wrote:45 minutes?? "When seconds count..."

Post doesn't state if he lives in the city or a rural area that causes a long response.

The truth would have been a perfect 911 response.
"Good Luck Sir and please be careful you're on your own. Help will be there in 45 minutes"

This happened in El Paso, TX within the city. I thought it was weird to have someone tell me I can't have my gun and to go put it away.

I was thinking about contacting the 911 district or finding out if that is how they train their staff. I have a former customer of mine when I was doing solo business in computer repair. His wife is a supervisor at the 911 center. I know 911 dispatchers are not police officers and hence why after I pushed a little and telling them that I had a CHL I didn't care what they said. While in my house I make the rules and thus I don't part ways with it. I guess they were really busy that night and just figured my call was low priority.

I will also take the time to make a few phone over the next couple of days (I am busy with school). Thank you all for your words.

Amonix wrote:This happened in El Paso, TX within the city. I thought it was weird to have someone tell me I can't have my gun and to go put it away.

I was thinking about contacting the 911 district or finding out if that is how they train their staff. I have a former customer of mine when I was doing solo business in computer repair. His wife is a supervisor at the 911 center. I know 911 dispatchers are not police officers and hence why after I pushed a little and telling them that I had a CHL I didn't care what they said. While in my house I make the rules and thus I don't part ways with it. I guess they were really busy that night and just figured my call was low priority.

I will also take the time to make a few phone over the next couple of days (I am busy with school). Thank you all for your words.

45 minute response inside the city. This is a textbook example of the necessity of being armed. I'm glad that you came out of this instance safe, and that you disregarded bad advice from a 911 dispatcher. I hope you that you pursue this matter to the benefit of all El Paso citizens.

Question to all:

Amonix wrote:So... 0202 on Saturday I had someone banging hard on one of the front doors to my house. Scared the crap out of me because I was in the middle of studying. I grab the phone call 911 and report that someone is banging on the door and that they have jumped my fence to get into the yard due to both the gates being locked (one driveway and one walkway). I notify the dispatcher that I am armed and I am a CHL. The dispatcher tells me I need to go put my gun away. I replied with "Why would I do that? If they break into the house I may need to protect myself." I was then told that I needed to tell her the color of my gun and that I should go put it away. I simply said ok. am armed. He said that dispatch already told him that and just asked where it was. I explain it was on my right back side.

If you were in charge of training the 911 Dispatchers how would you train them to respond to this call?

WildBill wrote:Question to all:

If you were in charge of training the 911 Dispatchers how would you train them to respond to this call?

To take all information required, advise them to stay calm, ask for more details if necessary, report to the police that the homeowner is armed and keep the homeowner on the line until the officers show up. At that point after verifying that officers are on scene and directly trying to access the owners property I would have the dispatcher inform the owner not to have the weapon in hand when exiting the home.

As far as I'm concerned it's not a dispatchers job to provide advise simply because they are not on scene. That's why they dispatch police, fire or EMS rather than telling you to fight the fire this way, arrest subjects like so or do a tracheotomy. The only things they should be doing is taking information, directing information, keeping you calm and helping you make common sense decisions (such as holstering your firearm when going to encounter police).

*edited

WildBill wrote:Question to all:

Amonix wrote:So... 0202 on Saturday I had someone banging hard on one of the front doors to my house. Scared the crap out of me because I was in the middle of studying. I grab the phone call 911 and report that someone is banging on the door and that they have jumped my fence to get into the yard due to both the gates being locked (one driveway and one walkway). I notify the dispatcher that I am armed and I am a CHL. The dispatcher tells me I need to go put my gun away. I replied with "Why would I do that? If they break into the house I may need to protect myself." I was then told that I needed to tell her the color of my gun and that I should go put it away. I simply said ok. am armed. He said that dispatch already told him that and just asked where it was. I explain it was on my right back side.

If you were in charge of training the 911 Dispatchers how would you train them to respond to this call?

I would second CoffeeNut's post. A dumb move would have been for me (or anyone) to walk out with a weapon in their hand as they are going to the police. For one it could be mistaken as I am the BG instead of the person reporting the crime / potential crime. Advising the officers to keep an eye out for a weapon is just as important. I always try to look at the interactions between myself and Law Enforcement the way I would want a person to treat my mother. To me the Police / Fire / EMS and any other agency out there are human. They got in the field for a few reasons and I am sure it did have to do with helping (I know some are for other reasons). I am selfish, I want my Mom to come home every night safely.

Dispatchers are in that pivotal role at the other end of that line. You have to have that customer service attitude of taking care of the caller and balance that with being able to listen to some horrible stuff sometimes. Overall taking the information and feeding it to those that will be helping is important. Directing the person to safely approach the officers with a weapon either holstered or in a safe location if the officers are coming to the area is one thing. Only after the officer or EMS / Fire is present and on the scene because at that point they are going to be able to handle a situation if a BG "was" there.

I don't except them to be versed on the laws. Who knows this person may have been new at doing 911 calls. Although I was clam on the phone she may have been nervous about sending an officer to an environment where one of her co-workers was going to be faced with a weapon from a scared person. I am not trying to defend but I do want to offer the other side of the coin. I think as it was suggested the best thing for me to do is to push to have training include some level of "If the caller has a gun, get information on the gun, what are they wearing, where they are at, and advise them to put the weapon in a safe place (holster, lock box, sock drawer, etc) once the officer is on site.

I know I am not the bad guy but they don't know that. The operator on the other end of that phone doesn't know me from adam and eve.

It is pretty much common practice for dispatch to ask one to put the gun away and not approach the police with it. I don't think much will be changed to that regard in any bigger city and blame it on lawsuits. If they tell one to do this or that, on a recorded line, somebody is going to request that and use it to sue the dept. Smaller areas might be more lenient, but I've heard it over and over on the radio at work. Fortunately for us, the sheriff's only asked my wife what caliber she was armed with when an intruder tried to open the front door.

Tragically a 45 minute response time to somebody banging on the door is not all that far fetched. X number of units for X number of calls. If you are working several hot calls and there is nobody to go, there is nobody to go. I've seen shootings and the such hold while we scrambled for units to cover the calls. Calls are prioritized and this would be less of a call then an armed robbery, shooting, ect. With that said One needs to be able to protect themselves.

It would make sense for the dispatcher to tell you that once police are on scene, don't have the gun in your hand when you greet them. It doesn't make any sense to tell the homeowner to put the gun away 45 minutes before the cops get there (nor would I obey such foolishness). Maybe the dispatcher meant the first but said the second. In any case, you are nearly always on your own when bad things start to happen, so look after yourself first.

Amonix wrote:So... 0202 on Saturday I had someone banging hard on one of the front doors to my house. Scared the crap out of me because I was in the middle of studying. I grab the phone call 911 and report that someone is banging on the door and that they have jumped my fence to get into the yard due to both the gates being locked (one driveway and one walkway). I notify the dispatcher that I am armed and I am a CHL. The dispatcher tells me I need to go put my gun away. I replied with "Why would I do that? If they break into the house I may need to protect myself." I was then told that I needed to tell her the color of my gun and that I should go put it away. I simply said ok.

Now what is going through my head is a few things. The first of which is my mom has been given death threats that they of course have said they would harm her family. I also have a family member that is upset about the way the estate (my Grandmothers house) is being handled and has made threats to burn the house down. So I am already on edge. 45 minutes later PD shows up. Because the gate is locked they call and have me meet them outside. I go out and I am asked for my ID. Being that I am carrying my weapon (plus what I would want someone to do for my mom) I explain I am armed. He said that dispatch already told him that and just asked where it was. I explain it was on my right back side.

They searched the back yard for me said that this has been common they are trying to see if people will wake up and open the door and try to get into the house. I explained that no one I know ever comes to my house at 2 in the morning and if they did they will call me before. Not even my best friend does that. Overall they were very friendly and very nice. What a night....

Did you get anymore info.? Was this a prank or deliberate?

I http://www.lowes.com/pd_202346-382-265D ... Id=3020161" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I think you should get 2 of these. They are easy to move in and out.

And some video surveillance cameras would be excellent also. They are worth every penny. I recommend Night Owl. They have 24/7/365 America based assistance with great video clips on their website on how to use them. Check out the deals on Tiger Direct.

I hope everything has been calm for you and your mom.

texanjoker wrote:It is pretty much common practice for dispatch to ask one to put the gun away and not approach the police with it. I don't think much will be changed to that regard in any bigger city and blame it on lawsuits. If they tell one to do this or that, on a recorded line, somebody is going to request that and use it to sue the dept. Smaller areas might be more lenient, but I've heard it over and over on the radio at work. Fortunately for us, the sheriff's only asked my wife what caliber she was armed with when an intruder tried to open the front door.

Tragically a 45 minute response time to somebody banging on the door is not all that far fetched. X number of units for X number of calls. If you are working several hot calls and there is nobody to go, there is nobody to go. I've seen shootings and the such hold while we scrambled for units to cover the calls. Calls are prioritized and this would be less of a call then an armed robbery, shooting, ect. With that said One needs to be able to protect themselves.

Absolutely true.

If the budget will allow, shift planning assigns staffing by looking at average call volumes plus a bit for fluctuations. When the variance is bigger than the plan, something has to give. Lower priority calls get sidelined first, and that works its way up the priority list as things get worse.

If the budget is really tight as it is in many places, shifts start out behind the 8 ball with staffing levels that correspond to below average call volumes. That means officers spend the shift racing from one emergency to another, and low priority calls get stacked as a routine. They only get answered when call volume gets really low.

Very true on the slow response time. I am also from El Paso and had to call 911 before. In my case, 3 guys actually busted my front door and saw my pistol. They ended up running as fast as they can. Dispatch asked me if shots were fire and if someone was hurt. Since no shots were fired and no one got hurt, pd showed up the following morning. Incident happened at 3:30 pm the previous day.
So much for the 2nd safest large city in the US.