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Cedar Park Dad wrote:Not border related but how effective is that. I've taught my children to politely not consent to anything. My boy was stopped for speeding, he didn't consent and they searched his vehicle anyway.

He'll run into that when he's younger. I'd teach him to quickly and quietly get a recorder working on his cell phone.. Without fiddling about in the car.
If they're asking for consent, that's a mark against having "probable cause". No harm in asking, but of course.
Any non-consensual search should trigger a record. On what grounds was he searched? I'd call CPPD and ask... At least it means that some parents follow up and that they need to think about it. Without a recording of the incident, your kid is going to fare very badly in a he-said against a LEO.

Note, I had a WilCo LEO tell me that he was going to arrest me if I didn't provide my SS number there in Cedar Park.... Noting but good experiences with Travis County.

cb1000rider wrote: Note, I had a WilCo LEO tell me that he was going to arrest me if I didn't provide my SS number there in Cedar Park.... Noting but good experiences with Travis County.

You cannot leave us hanging. What was the result?

jbarn wrote:

cb1000rider wrote: Note, I had a WilCo LEO tell me that he was going to arrest me if I didn't provide my SS number there in Cedar Park.... Noting but good experiences with Travis County.

You cannot leave us hanging. What was the result?

Probably the same nonsense like all the people that have told me they would have my badge......

jbarn wrote: You cannot leave us hanging. What was the result?

texanjoker wrote: Probably the same nonsense like all the people that have told me they would have my badge......

I caved. If he had a nothing hand and was bluffing, I bought it. I honestly believe he would have towed the car and cost me 12 hours. It's not like Wilco is known for that sort of thing. Sorry to disappoint, Joker...

Talking back or asserting your "rights" one on one against a LEO without a witness or without a recording, it's never going to work out well. I'm idealistic, but not dumb.

I've caved facing an unwarranted search also. There were several bluffs, but the one that I bought was, "we're bringing to dog from Travis county, it make take up to an hour and that dog will be all over your car - including on the hood, the roof, etc". Caved on that one too and signed over consent to search.

Largely these two incidents resulted in me installing recording equipment in the car one touch record on the phone. Both were incidents where I had no witnesses and I wasn't sure if there were dash cams.

All my other incidents in the last 25 years or so - respectful and no problems...

cb1000rider wrote:

jbarn wrote: You cannot leave us hanging. What was the result?

texanjoker wrote: Probably the same nonsense like all the people that have told me they would have my badge......

I caved. If he had a nothing hand and was bluffing, I bought it. I honestly believe he would have towed the car and cost me 12 hours. It's not like Wilco is known for that sort of thing. Sorry to disappoint, Joker...

Talking back or asserting your "rights" one on one against a LEO without a witness or without a recording, it's never going to work out well. I'm idealistic, but not dumb.

I've caved facing an unwarranted search also. There were several bluffs, but the one that I bought was, "we're bringing to dog from Travis county, it make take up to an hour and that dog will be all over your car - including on the hood, the roof, etc". Caved on that one too and signed over consent to search.

Largely these two incidents resulted in me installing recording equipment in the car one touch record on the phone. Both were incidents where I had no witnesses and I wasn't sure if there were dash cams.

All my other incidents in the last 25 years or so - respectful and no problems...

I probably would have caved on the 12 hour prospect too.....but I love dogs, and probably would have waited to see him.

VMI77 wrote:

cb1000rider wrote:

jbarn wrote: You cannot leave us hanging. What was the result?

texanjoker wrote: Probably the same nonsense like all the people that have told me they would have my badge......

I caved. If he had a nothing hand and was bluffing, I bought it. I honestly believe he would have towed the car and cost me 12 hours. It's not like Wilco is known for that sort of thing. Sorry to disappoint, Joker...

Talking back or asserting your "rights" one on one against a LEO without a witness or without a recording, it's never going to work out well. I'm idealistic, but not dumb.

I've caved facing an unwarranted search also. There were several bluffs, but the one that I bought was, "we're bringing to dog from Travis county, it make take up to an hour and that dog will be all over your car - including on the hood, the roof, etc". Caved on that one too and signed over consent to search.

Largely these two incidents resulted in me installing recording equipment in the car one touch record on the phone. Both were incidents where I had no witnesses and I wasn't sure if there were dash cams.

All my other incidents in the last 25 years or so - respectful and no problems...

I probably would have caved on the 12 hour prospect too.....but I love dogs, and probably would have waited to see him.

Dog claw scratches on the paint? No way. LEO scratches the finish with dog claws we are going to have issues.

Anygunanywhere

cb1000rider wrote:

jbarn wrote: You cannot leave us hanging. What was the result?

texanjoker wrote: Probably the same nonsense like all the people that have told me they would have my badge......

I caved. If he had a nothing hand and was bluffing, I bought it. I honestly believe he would have towed the car and cost me 12 hours. It's not like Wilco is known for that sort of thing. Sorry to disappoint, Joker...

Talking back or asserting your "rights" one on one against a LEO without a witness or without a recording, it's never going to work out well. I'm idealistic, but not dumb.

I've caved facing an unwarranted search also. There were several bluffs, but the one that I bought was, "we're bringing to dog from Travis county, it make take up to an hour and that dog will be all over your car - including on the hood, the roof, etc". Caved on that one too and signed over consent to search.

Largely these two incidents resulted in me installing recording equipment in the car one touch record on the phone. Both were incidents where I had no witnesses and I wasn't sure if there were dash cams.

All my other incidents in the last 25 years or so - respectful and no problems...

Seems to me we are in a very sad state of affairs when the public has to do things like install recording equipment in cars to protect themselves from the LEO's! I realize the few bad apples ruin the bunch but the bunch is still ruined. Unfortunately, you don't get to pick which LEO you have to deal with on the side of the road when no one is looking. Dash cams and body cameras and microphones should be mandatory on ALL units at ALL times. Should be made to verify working order prior to leaving for patrol or patrol doesn't happen. With all of the technology available today this can't be that difficult to accomplish.

VMI77 wrote: I love dogs, and probably would have waited to see him.

I love dogs too. I just don't want them jumping on my car, much less on the hood. Based on what I've seen, K-9 searches often involve claws on paint...

FYI, the other bluffs that I got and didn't buy:
1) We already have probable cause, please sign this consent. (Really?)
2) Let us search and we'll write you a ticket. Don't let us search and you're going to jail.
3) We already know you have something. Just show us where it is.

The silver lining was I think they felt bad about all the hassle and didn't issue a traffic citation.
Again, very much the exception to typical treatment...

I am much more comfortable if I know a LEO has recording equipment and it is on. I get super nervous when the lights on the car go off during a traffic stop, as that may indicate that auto-record just stopped.

anygunanywhere wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

cb1000rider wrote:

jbarn wrote: You cannot leave us hanging. What was the result?

texanjoker wrote: Probably the same nonsense like all the people that have told me they would have my badge......

I caved. If he had a nothing hand and was bluffing, I bought it. I honestly believe he would have towed the car and cost me 12 hours. It's not like Wilco is known for that sort of thing. Sorry to disappoint, Joker...

Talking back or asserting your "rights" one on one against a LEO without a witness or without a recording, it's never going to work out well. I'm idealistic, but not dumb.

I've caved facing an unwarranted search also. There were several bluffs, but the one that I bought was, "we're bringing to dog from Travis county, it make take up to an hour and that dog will be all over your car - including on the hood, the roof, etc". Caved on that one too and signed over consent to search.

Largely these two incidents resulted in me installing recording equipment in the car one touch record on the phone. Both were incidents where I had no witnesses and I wasn't sure if there were dash cams.

All my other incidents in the last 25 years or so - respectful and no problems...

I probably would have caved on the 12 hour prospect too.....but I love dogs, and probably would have waited to see him.

Dog claw scratches on the paint? No way. LEO scratches the finish with dog claws we are going to have issues.

Anygunanywhere

You're going to have issues with a cop and what will be viewed as legal search-er what exactly do you intend to do about it?

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

anygunanywhere wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

cb1000rider wrote:

jbarn wrote: You cannot leave us hanging. What was the result?

texanjoker wrote: Probably the same nonsense like all the people that have told me they would have my badge......

I caved. If he had a nothing hand and was bluffing, I bought it. I honestly believe he would have towed the car and cost me 12 hours. It's not like Wilco is known for that sort of thing. Sorry to disappoint, Joker...

Talking back or asserting your "rights" one on one against a LEO without a witness or without a recording, it's never going to work out well. I'm idealistic, but not dumb.

I've caved facing an unwarranted search also. There were several bluffs, but the one that I bought was, "we're bringing to dog from Travis county, it make take up to an hour and that dog will be all over your car - including on the hood, the roof, etc". Caved on that one too and signed over consent to search.

Largely these two incidents resulted in me installing recording equipment in the car one touch record on the phone. Both were incidents where I had no witnesses and I wasn't sure if there were dash cams.

All my other incidents in the last 25 years or so - respectful and no problems...

I probably would have caved on the 12 hour prospect too.....but I love dogs, and probably would have waited to see him.

Dog claw scratches on the paint? No way. LEO scratches the finish with dog claws we are going to have issues.

Anygunanywhere

You're going to have issues with a cop and what will be viewed as legal search-er what exactly do you intend to do about it?

Address the issues through the appropriate channels in a calm manner. They will be interacting with my attorney. The paint damage will be corrected.

Er - what response were you expecting, Dad?

Anygunanywhere

Address the issues through the appropriate channels in a calm manner. They will be interacting with my attorney. The paint damage will be corrected.

Er - what response were you expecting, Dad?

Anygunanywhere

Ok gotcha. I doubt that will work though. Its difficult to sue the Government, especially if the agent of said is acting constitutionally.

What was I expecting? Don't know. Usually when I hear "we're going to have issues," thats tied to something physical, which I would find to be a horribly bad idea. good to see that was not your intent.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

Address the issues through the appropriate channels in a calm manner. They will be interacting with my attorney. The paint damage will be corrected.

Er - what response were you expecting, Dad?

Anygunanywhere

Ok gotcha. I doubt that will work though. Its difficult to sue the Government, especially if the agent of said is acting constitutionally.

What was I expecting? Don't know. Usually when I hear "we're going to have issues," thats tied to something physical, which I would find to be a horribly bad idea. good to see that was not your intent.

Seeing as how I do not use illicit drugs, rarely exceed the speed limit, have a clean record, a Texas CHL, am polite and courteous to LEO when I do get tagged for something, I doubt seriously that I will ever be requested to submit to a search. Therefor if and when the request is ever made, they had better have articulable reasonable suspicion to request the search. I know what I need to do.

Anygunanywhere

anygunanywhere wrote: Seeing as how I do not use illicit drugs, rarely exceed the speed limit, have a clean record, a Texas CHL, am polite and courteous to LEO when I do get tagged for something, I doubt seriously that I will ever be requested to submit to a search.

I match that description, but have an added attribute. I put my hands on top of the wheel or keep them on the open window. To some LEOs, this is a sign of respect. To others, it indicates that I'm nervous and hiding something. Legitimately, I usually am nervous, but not because I'm hiding anything.

I semi-shamefully gave up sports cars a little while back due to lifestyle changes. That should help some.

There's a good chance you'll never go through something similar...

cb1000rider wrote:

anygunanywhere wrote: Seeing as how I do not use illicit drugs, rarely exceed the speed limit, have a clean record, a Texas CHL, am polite and courteous to LEO when I do get tagged for something, I doubt seriously that I will ever be requested to submit to a search.

I match that description, but have an added attribute. I put my hands on top of the wheel or keep them on the open window. To some LEOs, this is a sign of respect. To others, it indicates that I'm nervous and hiding something. Legitimately, I usually am nervous, but not because I'm hiding anything.

I semi-shamefully gave up sports cars a little while back due to lifestyle changes. That should help some.

There's a good chance you'll never go through something similar...

I have been the recipient of unlawfu searches multiple times. When I was in the navy I was arrested twice on railroaded charges including planted drugs. In high school I objected to the way I was being treated and was beat with a 5 cell flashlight by a Baytown cop.

I have my reasons for standing up for my rights. I find it disgraceful that since I am an older adult that I will likely be taken seriously if I stand up for my rights and that my rights were trampled on as a young man.

Anygunanywhere