A Comment About Our Educational System

[Running Arrow Bill]

Agree...out educational system sucks. I've never and never would teach in the public schools. Have taught at University level, though.

We should teach "academics" and "information". Then "test" for knowledge. There is always the "Normal Curve"...a few at the bottom of IQ and knowledge, a few at the top. The vast majority are in the 68% (+ and - 1 Standard Deviation). If you can't "cut it"...learn a trade or work in fast food...but stay off welfare!

Teaching the Test only serves to attempt to "equalize" all students...all are NOT equal.

[cb1000rider]

All I know is, that in the evilz publik skool my kids are/went to, they've learned far more than I did. As my boy took so many AP/placeouts and ACC course during summer he was able to skip a full year at Aggieville, and that colleges have already started calling about my daughter who's only a freshman in high school, they must be doing something right.

That's true.. And there are good public schools that have gifted and AP programs that can support smart kids like yours. Not all schools have those programs. And the more we focus on just overall performance on tests as a school, the fewer resources schools have for the best and brightest kids.

I don't know how old your kids are. How many required exams did your kids take to graduate? In 2013, the number of standardized tests required to graduate was 15. 15 tests. Perry signed a bill to cut it, so hopefully things will swing back to a more moderate level of testing.

[VMI77]

All I know is, that in the evilz publik skool my kids are/went to, they've learned far more than I did. As my boy took so many AP/placeouts and ACC course during summer he was able to skip a full year at Aggieville, and that colleges have already started calling about my daughter who's only a freshman in high school, they must be doing something right.

So then, you have smart kids...which for the most part makes their schooling irrelevant. Mine never set foot in a public school and got admitted to Harvard. That's not the issue.....it's the average and marginal students that are being ruined by the school system. The smart kids can overcome the indoctrination.

[Cedar Park Dad]

All I know is, that in the evilz publik skool my kids are/went to, they've learned far more than I did. As my boy took so many AP/placeouts and ACC course during summer he was able to skip a full year at Aggieville, and that colleges have already started calling about my daughter who's only a freshman in high school, they must be doing something right.

That's true.. And there are good public schools that have gifted and AP programs that can support smart kids like yours. Not all schools have those programs. And the more we focus on just overall performance on tests as a school, the fewer resources schools have for the best and brightest kids.

I don't know how old your kids are. How many required exams did your kids take to graduate? In 2013, the number of standardized tests required to graduate was 15. 15 tests. Perry signed a bill to cut it, so hopefully things will swing back to a more moderate level of testing.

more than I can count. It wasn't a big deal.

[Cedar Park Dad]

All I know is, that in the evilz publik skool my kids are/went to, they've learned far more than I did. As my boy took so many AP/placeouts and ACC course during summer he was able to skip a full year at Aggieville, and that colleges have already started calling about my daughter who's only a freshman in high school, they must be doing something right.

So then, you have smart kids...which for the most part makes their schooling irrelevant. Mine never set foot in a public school and got admitted to Harvard. That's not the issue.....it's the average and marginal students that are being ruined by the school system. The smart kids can overcome the indoctrination.

What is better? Private schools are good if you have big bucks. Home schooling is very hit or miss. We used to know quite a few. Some made it, most were not up to university pre-admit requirements.

All of them beat the garbage schools I went to.

[MotherBear]

I don't know how old your kids are. How many required exams did your kids take to graduate? In 2013, the number of standardized tests required to graduate was 15. 15 tests. Perry signed a bill to cut it, so hopefully things will swing back to a more moderate level of testing.

I think the whole approach to testing is messed up as well. My whole life, I took standardized tests with no special prep and did just fine. Mom had us take the Stanford Achievement Tests every other year or so to make sure we were on track. We'd take a few days off from our normal school routine, take the tests, and that was that. I don't ever remember her trying to teach us what to do on the tests, other than maybe the first time when she had to explain about how to use the answer sheets. Either we knew stuff or we didn't. Isn't that the whole point? I didn't do any special SAT or ACT prep either, and I got perfectly respectable scores. When I was in college, I'd take some time the evening before a test to review my notes from the semester and make sure it was all fresh in my mind, and that was that. Either I knew it or I didn't, and no amount of extra cramming was going to change that.

Now I'm teaching my kindergartener and there are occasional math assessments built into the curriculum we use. We get to one of those and he does it just like a normal lesson. He has no idea he's being "assessed," because it's just a review of what he's been learning all along and I take note of what he does well and what he needs more work on. No pressure, no fuss.

[mamabearCali]

I said nothing about religion. I said morality. The ability to know right from wrong. An ability that seems to be gone.

Sorry, I took that wrong. I assumed you were intermingling religion and morality, my bad.
Certainly there is some common morality that we all can agree with. You're talking about basic things - like don't steal, don't cheat? That stuff is gone in schools?

I just read your examples. Scary.

If anyone ever asks me why I homeschool. Those are some of the first things I cite.

Basic morality...don't steal, don't cheat, don't purposefully damage another person---nothing even really religious.....that is increasingly gone.

[mamabearCali]

All I know is, that in the evilz publik skool my kids are/went to, they've learned far more than I did. As my boy took so many AP/placeouts and ACC course during summer he was able to skip a full year at Aggieville, and that colleges have already started calling about my daughter who's only a freshman in high school, they must be doing something right.

So then, you have smart kids...which for the most part makes their schooling irrelevant. Mine never set foot in a public school and got admitted to Harvard. That's not the issue.....it's the average and marginal students that are being ruined by the school system. The smart kids can overcome the indoctrination.

What is better? Private schools are good if you have big bucks. Home schooling is very hit or miss. We used to know quite a few. Some made it, most were not up to university pre-admit requirements.

All of them beat the garbage schools I went to.

Homeschool is up to you whether the quality is amazing or not. It is also dependent on the child to a certain extent. One of my children is severely dyslexic and despite our best efforts (intense work for all of us) and tayloring curricula to him he is slightly behind by about a year. If he was in public school he likely would be even further behind, as I spent hours working with him daily. My other child is a year+ ahead because she can be and she is progressing at her own pace which is 2-3x normal speed. She would be bored and frustrated in school with the slow pace and would learn bad habits of laziness.

Both situations at home, beat the tar out of what would happen in public school.

[WildBill]

If anyone ever asks me why I homeschool. Those are some of the first things I cite. Basic morality...don't steal, don't cheat, don't purposefully damage another person---nothing even really religious.....that is increasingly gone.

I went to public schools, but learned this at home.

Homeschool is up to you whether the quality is amazing or not. It is also dependent on the child to a certain extent.

Exactly. At least you are the one who controls that part or your child's life rather than leaving it in the hands of others.

Home schooling in not a panacea.

I have see both situations where the home schooling was better than public schools and the children excelled in life.

In another instances, it was an utter failure.

IMO that had to due to the motivation of the parents to home school and well as the [lack of] education and intellect of the parents [teachers].

I never thought that my post would evolve into this type of discussion. If home schooling works for you and your children. More power to you.

[mamabearCali]

If anyone ever asks me why I homeschool. Those are some of the first things I cite. Basic morality...don't steal, don't cheat, don't purposefully damage another person---nothing even really religious.....that is increasingly gone.

I went to public schools, but learned this at home.

Homeschool is up to you whether the quality is amazing or not. It is also dependent on the child to a certain extent.

Exactly. At least you are the one who controls that part or your child's life rather than leaving it in the hands of others.

Home schooling in not a panacea.

I have see both situations where the home schooling was better than public schools and the children excelled in life.

In another instances, it was an utter failure.

IMO that had to due to the motivation of the parents to home school and well as the [lack of] education and intellect of the parents [teachers].

I never thought that my post would evolve into this type of discussion. If home schooling works for you and your children. More power to you.

I learned morality at home too, but I never had to deal with the utter depravity that kids today have to deal with at such a young age from their feral classmates. How does a teacher teach when the students are busy tormenting each other. How does a student learn when they must be worried that one unguarded moment could be broadcast to every person in the school and beyond?

I have seen exactly one homeschool fail and that was entirely predictable. I have known dozens to succeed wildly. But it is a ton of work and not every person is cut out for that.

[Oldgringo]

[quote="WildBill"]
I never thought that my post would evolve into this type of discussion....

[img][IMG]http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac32 ... bstone.jpg[/img][/img]

[WildBill]

I never thought that my post would evolve into this type of discussion....

[img][IMG]http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac32 ... bstone.jpg[/img][/img]

[WildBill]

I have known dozens to succeed wildly. But it is a ton of work and not every person is cut out for that.

I applaud the successes.

[Dori]

To me - the answer there is to allow parents to take that public funding and apply it to the school that meets the needs of their household. Why that's such a huge issue, I don't quite understand.

That's absolutely the wrong solution. The core of the problem is the taxpayers don't have enough say how their money is being spent on education. Voucher programs give taxpayers even less say how their money is spent.

School Vouchers = Taxation Without Representation

[jmra]

[ Image ]

Here is my (probably unpopular) take on the subject.
Years ago we tracked students. If students showed an academic aptitude we set them on an educational track for college. If they didn't we looked at other tracks. Were they mechanically inclined? Put them in auto shop. Are they good with their hands? Put them in wood shop. If we didn't know what to do with them, we taught them to weld.
Those we tracked down these other paths could go straight into the work force after graduation or for next to nothing they could continue their education in local trade schools.
Meanwhile, the college track kids were being taught in classes at a much higher level than the other kids. But, somewhere along the line someone decided that every student should go to college. This brought an abrupt end to tracking kids. Every kid had to be taught the same courses at the same level. Well, 2/3 of the class would be left behind if we continued to teach the college track so we lowered our aim to the middle. Then came no child left behind and we lowered our aim even more.
Did more kids go to college? You bet. So many that trade schools all but disappeared. Now if you wanted to learn what you were being taught at the trade school you had to go to a junior college and take all those other core subjects you struggled with in high school.
Which brings us to where we are today. Bright students under achieving because of the low standards and jobs that used to be filled by trade school grads going overseas because college grads wont take jobs that don't pay enough money to pay off school loans.
We took a true common sense system and created a multibillion dollar nightmare.
BTW, you hear all these schools bragging about their high passing rates for state testing? Last year a passing score on the STAAR 8th grade math test was right at 35%. What an accomplishment!