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At this point, here's what little I know is: His neighbors pay for grazing rights with no problem - He won't - problem.

He says he's willing to pay as long as the money doesn't go to the Feds.

Is he within his rights?

Beats me...

I don't know if Bundy is in the right or the wrong. I have heard it reported that Bundy tried to pay his grazing fees first to the BLM and they refuse to accept them because they wanted him to sell then he tried to pay the state who also refused to accept them. In another time I would say hogwash......but I after the past 8-10 years I find that totally believable. I do know that it has been reported that the BLM took the grazing fees and proceeded to force out/buy out every other rancher in the area. That seems very sketchy to me. Combine that with the drip and drabs that is coming out that Harry Reid might be looking to sell (lease) this land to chinese oil companies and this starts to look really dirty to boot. Then the nonsense about a turtle that is so numerous that they are euthanizing them a few miles away......

Now lets say all that about the grazing fees is bunk. The federal gov't has many methods of collecting on debts owed to them. None of them involve helicopters, and snipers. You could levy his bank acct, you could put a lien on his home, on his cattle, and on his taxes.

Bundy could be a 100% crackpot and be 100% wrong and the behavior of the gov't in this case has been so out of line, so egregious that I don't really care if he is wrong. Their method of "collecting" and enforcing grazing laws is absolutely unacceptable in a civilized society. It reminds me of things out of history books from much darker times.

The Feds have pulled back for now and the operation to remove cattle and blockade property has ended as they remove agents and personnel, though the legal fight will continue. I understand the ranchers passion to get his point across and wanting to be , but he would be better served by getting a spokesperson along side him to articulate the issues and give the chronology and details involved in this saga. I saw one tidbit that alluded to the family ranching the area since 1877, thirteen years after Nevada statehood. If that's true there's 137 of tradition and save for the last 20 years there must have been an amicable relationship between the government and the ranchers.


EDIT: found a little background: The Feds say he owes 1.1 million in fees, which, he says he will pay to the state. The Feds are paying contractors $966,000.00 to round up an estimated 900 cattle. I wonder what real cowboys would get paid to do it? That's not including the expense of all the government agents, equipment and other personnel gathered there. The fee that the government started charging in 1993 was punitive and arbitrary for the sole purpose of driving ranchers off the land to protect the desert tortoise. Bundy used to have 52 ranching neighbors, now he's the last one standing. The rest he says have been pushed out by the government over one issue or another. The fees served their purpose. I can't imaging how the tortoises survive the millions of bison that roamed a mere 150 or so years ago. The hooves of 900 cattle on that enormous amount of acreage must be devastating to them.

I was worried this was going to turn into another Ruby Ridge. This was a no win situation for the govt. I'm glad they decided to back off as I firmly believe this was going to turn into a shooting range war with no winners.

SC1903A3 wrote:I was worried this was going to turn into another Ruby Ridge. This was a no win situation for the govt. I'm glad they decided to back off as I firmly believe this was going to turn into a shooting range war with no winners.

good....someone somewhere got a clue. I am so so thankful. Now I just hope that it stays that way and they are not just going to do it when everyone is not looking as much.

mamabearCali wrote:good....someone somewhere got a clue. I am so so thankful. Now I just hope that it stays that way and they are not just going to do it when everyone is not looking as much.

The government will have their way in the end. There's too much heat right now so they'll wait until interest has faded as well as memories. Think Fast and Furious, Benghazi, IRS Scandal. "What difference at this point does it make?!'’

puma guy wrote:

mamabearCali wrote:good....someone somewhere got a clue. I am so so thankful. Now I just hope that it stays that way and they are not just going to do it when everyone is not looking as much.

The government will have their way in the end. There's too much heat right now so they'll wait until interest has faded as well as memories. Think Fast and Furious, Benghazi, IRS Scandal. "What difference at this point does it make?!'’

Yep. Unless we get some constitutionalists in power we are all going to eventually end up like Bundy. They will find a way to take him out by hook or by crook. I would tell him to be very careful who serves him food for a while.

SC1903A3 wrote:I was worried this was going to turn into another Ruby Ridge. This was a no win situation for the govt. I'm glad they decided to back off as I firmly believe this was going to turn into a shooting range war with no winners.

Would you prefer he caved and let the government do whatever they want to him? At some point someone is going to have to stand up to the federal behemoth. I can assure you it will be bloody. It always is. Governments often resort to violence when citizens stand up to them.

baldeagle wrote:This could be the match that lights the fuse.

One report talked with a real estate agent who has been trying to get him to sell his land to rich and powerful people for 20 years and he won't budge.

The real estate agent said the land is very valuable because of the water under it and the highway frontage.

Most of Nevada is not privately owned so what is privately owned is very valuable. If you don't believe me ask Howard Hughes.

I'm reading the County Sheriff told BLM to stand down. Not a decision they made on their own.

Drone strike eminent?

philip964 wrote:One report talked with a real estate agent who has been trying to get him to sell his land to rich and powerful people for 20 years and he won't budge.

The real estate agent said the land is very valuable because of the water under it and the highway frontage.

Most of Nevada is not privately owned so what is privately owned is very valuable. If you don't believe me ask Howard Hughes.

To a rancher like him, it's more than money. It's a love of the land and livestock and the independence they feel. It's in your blood. It's a way of life. A guy like that won't sell for anything. He will pass it on to his children like his folks did.

philip964 wrote:One report talked with a real estate agent who has been trying to get him to sell his land to rich and powerful people for 20 years and he won't budge.

The real estate agent said the land is very valuable because of the water under it and the highway frontage.

Most of Nevada is not privately owned so what is privately owned is very valuable. If you don't believe me ask Howard Hughes.

84.5% of Nevada is Federal controlled lands.
West of the Rockies you have a hard time spittin' and not hitting Federal lands.
graphic http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/10_USA/10_ ... l.land.jpg

As far as any stockman/rancher stealing from the public goes, please consider the fact that the Bureau of Land Management(pardon me while I rinse out my mouth) and U.S. Forest Service have between them created a bureaucracy that spent $132.5 million in 2012 to administer a grazing program that generates $17.5 million in fees. http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS21232.pdf If you are going steal from the public, steal BIG.

About half the fees generated go back into the land in reclamation projects.
Most of which goes to repair damage caused by wild burros/horses. Unlike feral hogs here in Texas, the wild burros/horses are noble, cute, inspiring, symbols. Heck, your tax dollars have been and will be spent in the future to feed them.
Imagine if some D.C. twit decides that hogs are noble.....

P.S. There isn't a lease or permit holder worth a damn that doesn't put 4 or 5 times his fees back into the "public lands" he utilizes in improvements every year.

Disclaimer: My family has run cows on "Federal" land for 6 generations.