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baldeagle wrote:The problem with this scenario is that the store clerk didn't say anything. It was the store clerk's responsibility to say, "I'm sorry maam, but you will have to get in line like everyone else." Then the clerk should turn to the first person in line and say, "How can I help you."

The customers should not be put on the spot like that.

It irritates me to no end when the stores have lines that say maximum 15 items, but the clerks allow people with more than 15 to check out. Take the sign down if you aren't going to honor it. Quit lying to your customers.

The employees don't care. They're getting paid minimum wage + and they're already taking BLEEP from start to finish.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

baldeagle wrote:The problem with this scenario is that the store clerk didn't say anything. It was the store clerk's responsibility to say, "I'm sorry maam, but you will have to get in line like everyone else." Then the clerk should turn to the first person in line and say, "How can I help you."

The customers should not be put on the spot like that.

It irritates me to no end when the stores have lines that say maximum 15 items, but the clerks allow people with more than 15 to check out. Take the sign down if you aren't going to honor it. Quit lying to your customers.

The employees don't care. They're getting paid minimum wage + and they're already taking BLEEP from start to finish.

Then I'd fire them until I found ones that did care. That's what's wrong with this country. Everybody settles instead of demanding performance.

baldeagle wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

baldeagle wrote:The problem with this scenario is that the store clerk didn't say anything. It was the store clerk's responsibility to say, "I'm sorry maam, but you will have to get in line like everyone else." Then the clerk should turn to the first person in line and say, "How can I help you."

The customers should not be put on the spot like that.

It irritates me to no end when the stores have lines that say maximum 15 items, but the clerks allow people with more than 15 to check out. Take the sign down if you aren't going to honor it. Quit lying to your customers.

The employees don't care. They're getting paid minimum wage + and they're already taking BLEEP from start to finish.

Then I'd fire them until I found ones that did care. That's what's wrong with this country. Everybody settles instead of demanding performance.

I don't think it is that the employees don't care. I have observed employees telling people that they would wait on them as soon as the people in line were waited on. The customer took out her cell phone and called the store, demanded to speak to a manager, then filed a complaint about the employee that "refused" to wait on her. Management came to the location, called the employee aside and proceeded to reprimand him with customers still waiting to be waited on. The person that made the complaint was still standing there smirking while this was going on. Customers were telling the manager they we're waiting to be waited on. Management stated that he would get someone else to wait on them. I think some of the problems one observes like this are deeper than surface.

I think you did just fine, except for feeling guilty about insisting on civilized behavior.

Taking a tangent, this seemingly ingrained response to be polite and feel guilty if you can't assuage the other person's "anger" even if they are being a donkey's rear is exploited by thugs and sociopaths (overlapping categories) to manipulate you and put/keep you at a disadvantage.

The non-violent ones will try to manipulate you into giving them some resource, whether it's spare change, buying a pencil/roof/job/car/investment you don't need, or an undeserved place in line.

The violent ones will use your over-trained politeness and compassion to get close enough to you to overwhelm you with violence or threat of violence.

Because in general we have actually done a pretty good job at keeping the two-legged wolves penned up in certain areas/environments and don't suffer from widespread groups of marauding vandals, a lot of people have forgotten that the basis of law and civilization is violence on the behalf of the rules of society. Thus we get beliefs that any kind of violence is bad, which is a perfect environment for bullies and thugs to exploit. Which they do.

Being civilized does not mean being a schmuck or a pushover or never using force/violence. It does mean defending the civilization via word and deed, and occasionally that deed might be shooting some clown that is trying to take your or someone else's life. That's why self-defense is an inherent human right, and why the 2A is important in protecting that.

You defended civilized behavior via word, and I think you did exactly right (except maybe turning your back on her - see below). While you noticed that the others in the line were also annoyed with her, notice that none of them did anything and you were standing out there by yourself. Congratulations. You now know what it's like to be a sheepdog.

It's true that not every transgression is worth doing battle over, and often times people are unintentionally rude or things just get out of sync; we need to choose our battles wisely.

This woman was intentionally rude. You were not rude. You were a real civilized citizen.

You do have to keep in mind that when you defend via deed, you may have to back that up with defending by force, however. Some sociopathic types don't know when quit: http://www.freep.com/article/20130324/N ... on-Detroit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A great book to read to help sort out what is going on when somebody acts out, whether on the street or in the office, is this one: ConCom: Conflict Communication A New Paradigm in Conscious Communication
This could replace most of the management and communication books out there.

It's only $8.99, and only in Kindle format. Kindle readers for your computer and phone are free. If you don't like electronic formats, make an exception this time, this one is worth it. Read it, then replay that scene at the WalMart and see if it doesn't explain what was going on there.

Best wishes.


p.s. The ConCom book by Rory Miller linked above should be used to replace the entire de-escalation portion of the CHL training. If I were a CHL instructor, I would strongly recommend this book and Miller's other book Facing Violence: Preparing for the Unexpected

I bet her SUV was idling in the Fire lane out front ....

92f-fan wrote:I bet her SUV was idling in the Fire lane out front ....

Or a handicap spot.

baldeagle wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

baldeagle wrote:The problem with this scenario is that the store clerk didn't say anything. It was the store clerk's responsibility to say, "I'm sorry maam, but you will have to get in line like everyone else." Then the clerk should turn to the first person in line and say, "How can I help you."

The customers should not be put on the spot like that.

It irritates me to no end when the stores have lines that say maximum 15 items, but the clerks allow people with more than 15 to check out. Take the sign down if you aren't going to honor it. Quit lying to your customers.

The employees don't care. They're getting paid minimum wage + and they're already taking BLEEP from start to finish.

Then I'd fire them until I found ones that did care. That's what's wrong with this country. Everybody settles instead of demanding performance.

Good luck with that. Anyone who cared wouldn't work in customer service at a Big Box retailer, at least not more then a month. Would you?

I don't think you spoke out of line at all. Being polite and a door may are not the same thing. You just politely told her you would not be a doormat.

A note to my fellow gentle hearts; when the misguided cuts in line, social graces demand that one must take the initiative and convey one's displeasure. I find that a light touch while employing an old tried and proved method in dealing with the errant brings positive results. Also, do not discount the power of humor in soothing damaged egos....maybe a wink, a smile, or a friendly pat on the back while departing.

Jim Beaux, the good manners maven
...

I witnessed what may have been the most patient DPS employee ever...went to renew my DL at the Hempstead office. If you've never had the pleasure it is a very small office w/ 2 clerks and an Admin/clerk. Only 6 seats inside. When those 6 seats are full, there are 6 more in a little ante room. When those fill up a bench is just outside. I arrived to find myself standing by the bench waiting my turn (s'ok, I brought a book). A nice gentleman made room for me on the bench and as space cleared inside we all shifted 1 or 2 seats as the progression from bench/ante room/inside moved along. While still on the bench stage, a lady a few years older than myself just came charging into the order demanding to be taken care of next as she "just needs a replacement license". (Now this lady just looked off from the get go. Hair, clothes, etc all askew-ansty) Admin/clerk who was taking stock of who needed what paperwork while waiting very politely told the Lady that she would have to wait her turn just like all these other nice people who arrived before her. Lady and clerk did this dance about 4 times. Each time the DPS employee was polite to a fault (really started taking the steam out of Lady's drawers!) I finally made my way to the inner office only to see Lady's face pressed up against the window looking to see if the clerk was still on the job. As I was called to the counter, the clerk stuck her head outside to let Lady inside. Kid you not, everyone inside asked her if she really wanted to do that knowing who was pacing outside the door. She just smiled and welcomed Lady inside and told her she would be seen very shortly and thanked her for her patience.

I don't know what their day is usually like, but that DPS employee should get an award for what I witnessed.

baldeagle wrote:The problem with this scenario is that the store clerk didn't say anything. It was the store clerk's responsibility to say, "I'm sorry maam, but you will have to get in line like everyone else." Then the clerk should turn to the first person in line and say, "How can I help you."

The customers should not be put on the spot like that.

It irritates me to no end when the stores have lines that say maximum 15 items, but the clerks allow people with more than 15 to check out. Take the sign down if you aren't going to honor it. Quit lying to your customers.

Store clerks are told to avoid any confrontation with a customer which could lead to the customer taking their business elsewhere. I have complained to the management at the Kroger grocery store about men parking in the spots reserved for pregnant women. I have been told that there is nothing they can do about it. It's all about the money.

LeakyWaders wrote:

baldeagle wrote:The problem with this scenario is that the store clerk didn't say anything. It was the store clerk's responsibility to say, "I'm sorry maam, but you will have to get in line like everyone else." Then the clerk should turn to the first person in line and say, "How can I help you."

The customers should not be put on the spot like that.

It irritates me to no end when the stores have lines that say maximum 15 items, but the clerks allow people with more than 15 to check out. Take the sign down if you aren't going to honor it. Quit lying to your customers.

Store clerks are told to avoid any confrontation with a customer which could lead to the customer taking their business elsewhere. I have complained to the management at the Kroger grocery store about men parking in the spots reserved for pregnant women. I have been told that there is nothing they can do about it. It's all about the money.

that's because the "pregnant women" spots are all about politeness. they aren't law. the only spots they can legally do anything about are handicapped spots. those other spots need to go away.

I think businesses are still allowed to tow vehicles parked on their property in violation of their rules. If they care enough.

ELB wrote:I think you did just fine, except for feeling guilty about insisting on civilized behavior.

Taking a tangent, this seemingly ingrained response to be polite and feel guilty if you can't assuage the other person's "anger" even if they are being a donkey's rear is exploited by thugs and sociopaths (overlapping categories) to manipulate you and put/keep you at a disadvantage.

The non-violent ones will try to manipulate you into giving them some resource, whether it's spare change, buying a pencil/roof/job/car/investment you don't need, or an undeserved place in line.

The violent ones will use your over-trained politeness and compassion to get close enough to you to overwhelm you with violence or threat of violence.

Because in general we have actually done a pretty good job at keeping the two-legged wolves penned up in certain areas/environments and don't suffer from widespread groups of marauding vandals, a lot of people have forgotten that the basis of law and civilization is violence on the behalf of the rules of society. Thus we get beliefs that any kind of violence is bad, which is a perfect environment for bullies and thugs to exploit. Which they do.

Being civilized does not mean being a schmuck or a pushover or never using force/violence. It does mean defending the civilization via word and deed, and occasionally that deed might be shooting some clown that is trying to take your or someone else's life. That's why self-defense is an inherent human right, and why the 2A is important in protecting that.

You defended civilized behavior via word, and I think you did exactly right (except maybe turning your back on her - see below). While you noticed that the others in the line were also annoyed with her, notice that none of them did anything and you were standing out there by yourself. Congratulations. You now know what it's like to be a sheepdog.

It's true that not every transgression is worth doing battle over, and often times people are unintentionally rude or things just get out of sync; we need to choose our battles wisely.

This woman was intentionally rude. You were not rude. You were a real civilized citizen.

You do have to keep in mind that when you defend via deed, you may have to back that up with defending by force, however. Some sociopathic types don't know when quit: http://www.freep.com/article/20130324/N ... on-Detroit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A great book to read to help sort out what is going on when somebody acts out, whether on the street or in the office, is this one: ConCom: Conflict Communication A New Paradigm in Conscious Communication
This could replace most of the management and communication books out there.

It's only $8.99, and only in Kindle format. Kindle readers for your computer and phone are free. If you don't like electronic formats, make an exception this time, this one is worth it. Read it, then replay that scene at the WalMart and see if it doesn't explain what was going on there.

Best wishes.


p.s. The ConCom book by Rory Miller linked above should be used to replace the entire de-escalation portion of the CHL training. If I were a CHL instructor, I would strongly recommend this book and Miller's other book Facing Violence: Preparing for the Unexpected

THANK YOU for the book recommendations! I will look them up.

OP I totally feel what you are saying and give you big kudos for standing up for yourself and others. This is exactly why I recommend this book...

http://fightlikeagirlandwin.com/index.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I cannot recommend it more. Please read my review entitled "Finally a book that speaks to me." In this forum. I have loaned this book out to a friend who needs it and is very encouraged by it. I think I'm going to buy another book, because I want to keep one for me and one to loan.

RX8er wrote:Something very similar happened to me and TBM. We were at Walmart returning who knows what. We were about 3 or 4 in line. The lady that was due up next, saw a friend walk by as she waited. The friend walked up and they struck up a conversation. When the lady finished her business that waited in line, she let her friend who didn't wait in line right in there. I spoke up and commented that there was a line and that it started right back there, pointing to where she needed to go. They both eventually walked out of the store and she didn't conduct her business, which I believe was to cash a check.

And, in this case, the store employee wasn't going to say a thing.

I have in numerous cases, let someone in line in front of me that has an item or two and people have reciprocated the same to me. I generally do not do it though if I have people behind me.

It sounds like you witnessed the "chat and cut". I'll be honest, I'm not a people person and often find myself irritated when dealing with the general public. However, I am also very non-confrontational by nature, so I typically don't say much. And when I do say something, I often wonder if I was rude & should have just let it go.