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Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:30 am
by Lucky45
AEA wrote:Canada is a COUNTRY.....not a State!
He is here legally. He is a Dual Citizen.
He could simply change his address back to TX and apply for a regular TX CHL, but he does not want to have to change his address to mine just to get a CHL that he will only have the opportunity to use one Month out of the year.
So, that is why I am asking about the possibility of a Non Resident TX CHL.
I have a feeling that txinvestigator is correct. I hate to have to call DPS to get a clariification as you don't always get the correct answer on the 1st or even 2nd try!
I was hoping I would find someone in a similar circumstance that had already found the actual answer.
Hey AEA,
This application would be an
EASY DENIAL for the DPS. It is not just as simple as changing an address to send in an application. Those that travel internationally knows that everytime you
ENTER or LEAVE the jurisdisction, that
EVERYONE has to fill out
I-94 form which tracked by INS.
Therefore, if you check previous post on background checks, you would see that info most likely would show up in the INS background check. So you can put whatever you like on an application, but that
PORT OF EMBARKATION / DEPARTATION stamp and signature by an immigration officer will be
more accurate. That
DATABASE by INS does not lie about how long and when you were physically in the U.S.A.
So he would be denied due to physical residency requirements, I think. I have dual citizenship and wouldn't waste my long distance call.
OK
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:08 am
by AEA
Thanks all for your input and I appreciate it. I just do not want to have to call DPS and put up with what I know will be a runaround. So, we will call it off.
He will get his PD Certification and work in Canada for a few years (which will be an easy Background check for DPS when the time comes) and then he will actually move to Texas and apply at a local PD. After 6 mos residency he will apply for his TX CHL as a Texas Resident.
After thinking about it, even if he could get a non res now, it would not be cost effective to pay for 5 year license and carry for only 5 months (one Month a year visit)!
Thanks again!
Re: OK
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:48 am
by seamusTX
AEA wrote:I just do not want to have to call DPS and put up with what I know will be a runaround.
I called DPS with an unusual question and got it answered by a guy who said he was a lawyer within ten minutes, no runaround.
I know some people have had trouble with them, but they can be responsive.
- Jim
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 12:47 pm
by Jacob Staff
This is not exactly about a Texas CHL but is worth taking a look at.
http://www.saf.org/viewpr-new.asp?id=202
Re: Canadian Resident want's Texas CHL
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 1:58 pm
by cxm
I"d suggest calling or sending an email to the Texas DPS. They can give you a solid answer... our opinions are just opinions.
If he moves back to the US, the background check will be more difficult because it includes non US locations.
FWIW
Chuck
AEA wrote:I am a TX CHL Holder and my Son who lives in Canada visits every year and we go to the range together. He really enjoys shooting his HK USP .45 that I got for him, but I am a 1911 guy.....ha ha.....
Anyway, he was born in McKinney, TX in 1985 and we moved to Canada (Mother Canadian) in 1990. I returned to TX alone in 2003 and he has visited me every year for about a Month each time. So he is a US Citizen (but also a Canadian Citizen) (Dual Citizenship).
He was 5 years old when we moved to Canada. Now he is 21. He would like to get a TX Non-Resident CHL and carry while he is in Texas. Is this possible?
He is as sensible Guy and currently being considered for a position with his Local Police Agency (Royal Newfoundland Constabulary). He actually should receive the go/no go in the next couple of weeks. It helps that his Uncle up there is the Deputy Chief of the Department!
Anyway, can someone that knows the in's & out's of the Non Resident CHL for TX let me know if this is possible and where can I find more information on it? I have done a search here and on the DPS Site with no luck yet for this circumstance.
Re: OK
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 2:06 pm
by txinvestigator
AEA wrote:Thanks all for your input and I appreciate it. I just do not want to have to call DPS and put up with what I know will be a runaround. So, we will call it off.
He will get his PD Certification and work in Canada for a few years (which will be an easy Background check for DPS when the time comes) and then he will actually move to Texas and apply at a local PD. After 6 mos residency he will apply for his TX CHL as a Texas Resident.
After thinking about it, even if he could get a non res now, it would not be cost effective to pay for 5 year license and carry for only 5 months (one Month a year visit)!
Thanks again!
Once in Texas he can apply immediately; there is no longer a six month wait.
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 4:44 pm
by Crossfire
AEA - since no one is sure about your son's Texas CHL eligibility, I contacted Utah to find out what they might say. My inquiry to them was:
"I am a Utah Instructor with a question for a prospective
student.
The young man is a USA citizen, but is living in Canada.
He travels frequently to the U.S., and wants to get a CFP.
Is he eligible, as a Canadian resident, to get a Utah CFP?"
Here is the response:
"As you probably already know, the non US citizen eligibility
is currently being looked at. If your student is a US
citizen, he will be just fine. Make sure he attaches
documentation showing US citizenship.
Thank you,
BCI Firearms Division
3888 West 5400 South
Salt Lake City, Utah 84118
801-965-4445
dpsfirearms@utah.gov"
Your son can take the Utah class next time he is visiting, or he can possibly find a Utah instructor in Canada. (They do not have a requirement that classes be taught in the United States.)
The Utah license fee is $59 for the initial license, good for 5 years. The renewal is only $10, and there is no renewal class required.
Texas has full reciprocity with Utah, so he will be legal to carry in Texas and all the other reciprocal states to Utah.
You can find your nearest Utah Instructor here:
http://www.bci.utah.gov/CFP/CFInstructors.html
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 4:48 pm
by nitrogen
I'll vouch for llwatson; I have 3 canadian friends with Utah licenses that carry on them when they are here.
She shouldn't need vouching for , as she's an instructor, but hey :)
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:03 pm
by txinvestigator
llwatson wrote:AEA - since no one is sure about your son's Texas CHL eligibility, I contacted Utah to find out what they might say. My inquiry to them was:
"I am a Utah Instructor with a question for a prospective
student.
The young man is a USA citizen, but is living in Canada.
He travels frequently to the U.S., and wants to get a CFP.
Is he eligible, as a Canadian resident, to get a Utah CFP?"
Here is the response:
"As you probably already know, the non US citizen eligibility
is currently being looked at. If your student is a US
citizen, he will be just fine. Make sure he attaches
documentation showing US citizenship.
Thank you,
BCI Firearms Division
3888 West 5400 South
Salt Lake City, Utah 84118
801-965-4445
dpsfirearms@utah.gov"
Your son can take the Utah class next time he is visiting, or he can possibly find a Utah instructor in Canada. (They do not have a requirement that classes be taught in the United States.)
The Utah license fee is $59 for the initial license, good for 5 years. The renewal is only $10, and there is no renewal class required.
Texas has full reciprocity with Utah, so he will be legal to carry in Texas and all the other reciprocal states to Utah.
You can find your nearest Utah Instructor here:
http://www.bci.utah.gov/CFP/CFInstructors.html
A great solution!
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:57 pm
by nuparadigm
seamusTX wrote:
I suspect the omission of D.C. and the territories was an accident. I wonder if the issue has ever come up.
D.C. came up with me years ago when I first applied for a CHL. I was born in D.C. and someone in DPS thought that the District of Columbia was a foreign country ( ... it really
is, but that's a whole 'nother thread).
I think that, in terms of a non-resident CHL application, a Virginian could apply for one even though Virginia is not, technically a State (it's a Commonwealth). Using that logic, a Federal Protectorate such as D.C. might qualify. But would American Samoa?
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 6:10 pm
by seamusTX
For legal purposes, if an entity has a star on the flag, it's a state, no matter what the name. More formally, each state either ratified the Constitution or was admitted to the Union by an act of Congress (except West Virginia, which was separated from Virginia).
Texas law requires a non-resident applicant to be a resident of a state.
The Constitution itself distinguishes D.C. from the states, particularly the 23rd amendment, which allows the residents of D.C. to vote for President, although they do not have Senators or full-fledged Representatives.
Residents of D.C. and other people who do not reside in a state cannot legally buy a handgun anywhere in the U.S., because federal law requires handgun purchases to be made in the state of residence. (Dickens was right.)
Given that they can't legally acquire a handgun, and the high cost of the Texas CHL, I doubt anyone in those circumstances has applied. It looks like they can get a Utah license for bragging rights (if that's what they want), and some other states may be easier.
- Jim
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:25 pm
by Liberty
seamusTX wrote:Liberty wrote:There are several definations of the word "state" ...
Call me whacky, but I think when the Lege uses the word
state, they mean a U.S. state.
While I'm sure that is what they intended, We all know from the behavior of Harris County prosecutors that the intentions don't have to actually mean anything.
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:37 pm
by seamusTX
Liberty wrote:While I'm sure that is what they intended, We all know from the behavior of Harris County prosecutors that the intentions don't have to actually mean anything.
Yeah, but they get to interpret the rules, and we have to deal with it.
- Jim
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:54 pm
by jimlongley
nuparadigm wrote:seamusTX wrote:
I suspect the omission of D.C. and the territories was an accident. I wonder if the issue has ever come up.
D.C. came up with me years ago when I first applied for a CHL. I was born in D.C. and someone in DPS thought that the District of Columbia was a foreign country ( ... it really
is, but that's a whole 'nother thread).
I think that, in terms of a non-resident CHL application, a Virginian could apply for one even though Virginia is not, technically a State (it's a Commonwealth). Using that logic, a Federal Protectorate such as D.C. might qualify. But would American Samoa?
Yeah, I always like to answer "What state were you born in?" with "Naked!"
And counties, what counties? We don't need no stinkin counties!
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:56 pm
by Liberty
seamusTX wrote:Liberty wrote:While I'm sure that is what they intended, We all know from the behavior of Harris County prosecutors that the intentions don't have to actually mean anything.
Yeah, but they get to interpret the rules, and we have to deal with it.
- Jim
Which brings us back to the original question and the answer.
DPS gets to interpret the rules. If they were called and reminded them that Canada is indeed a state, a sovereign state, and see if they would/could see it my way. I admit that my premise is a little outlandish, but it wouldn't hurt to call and get an opinion from those really get to interpret the rules. Who knows maybe they will see it in the same outlandish way.