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mr surveyor wrote:what is the generally accepted legal defination of the phrase "on or about their person"?

1916 Wagner v. State: The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals ruled that a pistol is "about" one's person if the pistol can be reached without materially changing one's position.

Renegade wrote:

mr surveyor wrote:what is the generally accepted legal defination of the phrase "on or about their person"?

1916 Wagner v. State: The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals ruled that a pistol is "about" one's person if the pistol can be reached without materially changing one's position.

Yep. Later cases added that the passenger compartment of motor vehicles were included, if within the person immediate access. Glove boxes, center consoles, under the seat, etc.

given that the person drives into the parking lot and parks the vehicle, would the "about their person" clause fit if the driver had his weapon in the console between the seats, easily within reach?

mr surveyor wrote:what is the generally accepted legal defination of the phrase "on or about their person"?

My understanding is in your hand, in a holster, in a pocket, tucked into your belt, in a bag that you are carrying, or within reach without shifting your position (for example, in the center console of a vehicle).

There have been some Supreme Court cases where people were acquitted for having weapons under the seat of a car, though it's worth noting they were busted, tried, and found guilty in lower court.

- Jim

I guess what I'm trying to nail down is the difference between chl and non licensed person with a gun in the console of their vehicle in a 30.06 posted parking lot.

mr surveyor wrote:I guess what I'm trying to nail down is the difference between chl and non licensed person with a gun in the console of their vehicle in a 30.06 posted parking lot.

Until 2005, the non-licensed person would have been guilty of PC 46.02 UCW, in most circumstances. The CHL holder would have been guilty of 30.06 criminal trespass.

The modification of the traveling law in 2005 made most people in privately owned motor vehicles travelers, and thus not violating 46.02.

Now, there are two ways of looking at this:

• If the CHL holder is carrying under the authority of his license, he is violating 30.06
• If everyone in a vehicle is a traveler, then the CHL holder is not carrying under the authority of his license and is not violating 30.06

I don't know of any such case ever occuring. (Dickens was right.)

- Jim

thank you for a very clear answer

Renegade wrote:On another note, I would love to see a company manual that complies with 30.06, would be pretty big.

Just for technical accuracy, the size of the lettering only applies if it is on a sign. A handbook can have any legible lettering, as long as the wording matches the legal requirements.

srothstein wrote:

Renegade wrote:On another note, I would love to see a company manual that complies with 30.06, would be pretty big.

Just for technical accuracy, the size of the lettering only applies if it is on a sign. A handbook can have any legible lettering, as long as the wording matches the legal requirements.

Thanks for the correction.

txinvestigator wrote:

Mithras61 wrote:The company does NEED probable cause, though. They can just demand that as a condition of your continued employment they get to search your vehicle. If you consent and have a firearm, and that violates company policy, then they can fire you.

Upon further review of your statement, it appears you meant that the company does not need probable cause. Yes?

Yes. Thanks for folowing up on it. Sometimes the connec tion between my keyboard & brain is a little poor...

So, if your employer takes your keys without your permission and unlocks your vehicle, finds a "smokewagon" can they fire you then? Do you have any grounds for criminal trespass charges against them? Thanks for the wealth of info gentlemen. Hope you guys have a wonderful work day.

jazr45acp wrote:So, if your employer takes your keys without your permission and unlocks your vehicle, finds a "smokewagon" can they can fire you then?

In Texas, your employer can fire you at any time for any reason or no reason, unless you're covered by an employment contract of some kind.

In your proposed scenario, I don't know if they would be guilty of theft, trespassing, or unauthorized use of a motor vehicle.

- Jim

Wahl, they'd be guilty of a butt-whoopin' if'n they broke in mah truck!!!


I doubt they'd be taken for any criminal charge, since you agreed to allow them to search your vehicle whenever they want when you cashed that paycheck.

seamusTX wrote:

jazr45acp wrote:So, if your employer takes your keys without your permission and unlocks your vehicle, finds a "smokewagon" can they can fire you then?

In Texas, your employer can fire you at any time for any reason or no reason, unless you're covered by an employment contract of some kind.

In your proposed scenario, I don't know if they would be guilty of theft, trespassing, or unauthorized use of a motor vehicle.

That would make for some tricky arguments, especially in my case, since I keep the car keys on me at all times, and will resign rather than allow them to be taken by anyone I don't trust not to do the above. So, they'd either have to take the keys by force (robbery) or break into the car. (an interesting list of possibilities there, especially since I work night shifts) If it's worth all that to them to get me fired, something's screwy to start with.

jazr45acp wrote:So, if your employer takes your keys without your permission and unlocks your vehicle, finds a "smokewagon" can they fire you then? Do you have any grounds for criminal trespass charges against them? Thanks for the wealth of info gentlemen. Hope you guys have a wonderful work day.

No employer is going to take your keys without permission to search your personal vehicle. That is just pushing this scenario a little too far.

What is more reasonable is that they will ask for permission to search, and your failure to grant permission will result in your termination.