Build for friend legallity

[Excaliber]

Youtube is freaking AWESOME! They should offer degrees or diplomas on Youtube because I have learned how to do so many things by watching Youtube video's. It's like having a mentor at your beckon call for all things handyman.

It can be awesome, but it isn't a repository of guaranteed best practices either, so you have to be careful. Before he ever became anything more than a shade-tree gunsmith, my son found instructions on YouTube for how to lighten the stock trigger on an AR. It worked for me, and balanced against the cost of an aftermarket trigger, it's pretty decent. BUT...... I maintain that I was lucky, as it is entirely possible to overdo the hack and render your trigger (And hammer) useless. The ingredient for success was the mind of a teenager with an acumen for how things work and an understanding that finesse is often what distinguishes an artist from Bubba.

There is some cringe-worthy stuff on YouTube, and there's some good stuff too. Let common sense prevail.

These are points very well taken. YouTube is a great resource when you learn to separate the wheat from the chaff.

When I look for how to do it videos, I either look for those from known good sources (e.g. Brownell's) or I watch multiple videos to look for common elements and gotchas.

[jayinsat]

Youtube is freaking AWESOME! They should offer degrees or diplomas on Youtube because I have learned how to do so many things by watching Youtube video's. It's like having a mentor at your beckon call for all things handyman.

It can be awesome, but it isn't a repository of guaranteed best practices either, so you have to be careful. Before he ever became anything more than a shade-tree gunsmith, my son found instructions on YouTube for how to lighten the stock trigger on an AR. It worked for me, and balanced against the cost of an aftermarket trigger, it's pretty decent. BUT...... I maintain that I was lucky, as it is entirely possible to overdo the hack and render your trigger (And hammer) useless. The ingredient for success was the mind of a teenager with an acumen for how things work and an understanding that finesse is often what distinguishes an artist from Bubba.

There is some cringe-worthy stuff on YouTube, and there's some good stuff too. Let common sense prevail.

These are points very well taken. YouTube is a great resource when you learn to separate the wheat from the chaff.

When I look for how to do it videos, I either look for those from known good sources (e.g. Brownell's) or I watch multiple videos to look for common elements and gotchas.

But we all digress. Back to the original topic:

[winters]

I thought keeping someone elses gun overnight or without them physically there for the purposes of working on it was considered gunsmithing and required to be licensed?

[gljjt]

I thought keeping someone elses gun overnight or without them physically there for the purposes of working on it was considered gunsmithing and required to be licensed?

I think you are correct.

[gljjt]

I thought keeping someone elses gun overnight or without them physically there for the purposes of working on it was considered gunsmithing and required to be licensed?

I think you are correct.

I don't think the overnight is the catch. I believe gunsmithing and manufacturing (if you handle the lower as part of the build, I think that they consider that manufacturing) requires a license.

[lfinsr]

I can find in the ATF documents requiring "licensed gunsmiths" to keep records when the firearm is left overnight (27 CFR 178.121: GENERAL
(RECORDS)), but I can't find anywhere that would prohibit me from doing what the OP was asking, building for a friend. Licensed gunsmiths don't work for free, at least I haven't found one yet. If I'm helping a friend and no money exchanges hands why would that require a license. At worst it would seem if said friend transported the parts back and forth to my residence, not leaving anything overnight, I'd be in the clear. I do realize we're talking about the BATFE and also know they can and do make up rules as they go. Now if you're talking about an 80% lower I can see how that would perhaps change the picture.

I'd like to know the answer as I'm not interested in becoming a felon.

[C-dub]

Way to throw a little sand in the gears guys. It will be interesting to hear what others have to say about this twist.

[gljjt]

If I were contemplating this, I would thoroughly read up on the ATF website. Dealing, gunsmithing and manufacturing are different things requiring different licenses. It appears to me that sometimes there is a very fine line between gunsmithing and manufacturing. And they are on different licenses. I don't know how it all applies when no money is involved, as in helping out a friend.

[C-dub]

Teach a man to fish...

Yeah, what if I am not interested in buying barrel tools and extra set of wrenches?

Then don't. This isn't about you.

C-dub asked and I imagine he's got - or prepared to get - the tools as he's pondering building something.

I'm not involved in this in any way other than to ask about here from people I'd hoped would know the answers to these questions. Rather than try to explain the friend of a friend is buying this from from another friend tangled web I thought it would just be easier to keep it in the first person.

I told my friend about the potential gunsmithing problem and his main concern for his friend that is doing this is what kind of trouble could he get into.

I also have no current plans or equipment to assemble a rifle for the foreseeable future. Right now, I'm still saving to buy me a reloading setup.

[C-dub]

After talking with my friend from work today, he's curious about how much trouble his friend that wants to buy the rifle from the other guy that would build it. I really don't know, but wondered if he might have a problem knowingly buying it from someone he knew didn't have a gunsmith's license and that lied on the 4473 form to obtain the lower.

[SRH78]

After talking with my friend from work today, he's curious about how much trouble his friend that wants to buy the rifle from the other guy that would build it. I really don't know, but wondered if he might have a problem knowingly buying it from someone he knew didn't have a gunsmith's license and that lied on the 4473 form to obtain the lower.

A straw purchase is a Federal felony. I would want no part of that. My thinking would be for the builder/assembler to just assemble the upper. That way, he never has had the firearm, just some parts. He can buy and sell parts all he wants.

[Jumping Frog]

I thought keeping someone elses gun overnight or without them physically there for the purposes of working on it was considered gunsmithing and required to be licensed?

No, only if you are doing it for profit, as a business. You can give me all your guns and I can keep them a day, a week, or a month to perform any kind of work you want me to perform without any problem as long as you are not paying for the service. If I purchase some parts for you and you reimburse me for my costs, that is fine so long as I am not profiting as a business. If you gift me a bottle of Scotch as a thank you, we can keep the feds out of that!

[C-dub]

After talking with my friend from work today, he's curious about how much trouble his friend that wants to buy the rifle from the other guy that would build it. I really don't know, but wondered if he might have a problem knowingly buying it from someone he knew didn't have a gunsmith's license and that lied on the 4473 form to obtain the lower.

A straw purchase is a Federal felony. I would want no part of that.

That's what I'm thinking too. I've been trying to convince my friend to tell this guy it's something he needs to stay away from, but since he only sees the guy building it doing something illegal he's not worried about him because he's not his friend.