Which .308 Platform?

[ShootDontTalk]

Yep...I owe an apology to the Sgt. I don't know how I missed him. That is a real stretch for any .308!

Edit to add: I found this web page with a lot of interesting stuff about sniper rifles - in particular Chris Kyle's rifles. Not exactly AR-10 (except a little about the SR-25) but very interesting.

[Pawpaw]

Yep...I owe an apology to the Sgt. I don't know how I missed him. That is a real stretch for any .308!

Edit to add: I found this web page with a lot of interesting stuff about sniper rifles - in particular Chris Kyle's rifles. Not exactly AR-10 (except a little about the SR-25) but very interesting.

Did you intend to include a link? I'd like to read that. Thanks!

[ShootDontTalk]

Boy first I miss the Sgt., then I forget the link. I get the dummy award today!

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/01/1 ... le-rifles/

Sorry.

[The Annoyed Man]

With all due respect, all manufacturers have a bad habit of overstating their product. He says the rifle is being developed to provide 1,000 yard capability. Then later he claims shooting it out to a mile - 1760 yards. Now this is assuming they are still chambering the rifle for 7.62 X 51. The longest confirmed sniper kill with that combination is 1050 yards.

Can you shoot a 7.62 X 51 out to 1760 yards? Of course. You can shoot a 22 long rifle that far. The real question is why would you want to? Zero the 7.62 X 51 at 1000 yards and you still need over 120 minutes of angle up to hit center target at 1760 yards.

There are several cartridges that are flat shooting enough to be used at 1760, but the 762 X 51 isn't one of them. (338 Lapua and 50 BMG come to mind) Effective shots at those ranges are not cold bore shots, but rather walked on target like artillery.

I think I'd wait and see if the Army adopts the FN before considering that one. Besides, I'd need a year or so to save up enough for a down payment. Meantime, if you want long range shooting, you could buy a McMillan or GA Precision for lots less and get a less expensive AR-10 type rifle. The military pretty much uses the .300 Win Mag (or greater) for longer ranges, not the .308.

My 2 cents anyway.

ShootDontTalk beat me to this point. I was in the middle of pointing this out and had to walk away from my computer for a while and couldn't finish it.

BTW, I spent most of Wednesday on the 200 yard line at PCSC with my son, and these are the rifles we were were shooting..... 5 of the 7 were .308s, with no 2 alike. The 3 rifles on the left are my sons, the 4 on the right are mine:




Left to right:

1. M1A Loaded in Sage EBR chassis (.308 Winchester)
2. Custom-built AR15 SPR (5.56 NATO)
3. Savage 10FP-HS Precision (.308 Winchester)
4. Custom-built AR15 DMR (5.56 NATO)
5. Remington 700 VSF (.308 Winchester)
6. FN SCAR 17S (.308 Winchester)
7. Ruger Gunsite Scout (.308 Winchester)

The Ruger Gunsite Scout is a very small rifle. As you can see, the SCAR is actually shorter.......with the stock nearly completely extended. When you hold the SCAR by the magazine well with one arm extended - actually easy to do - it is actually perfectly balanced fore and aft. Even though it 1 lb heavier than the 7 lb RGS, it feels no heavier because it is so perfectly balanced. And a comparison of recoil isn't even a fair match. The 7 lb RGS has substantial recoil. The 8 lb SCAR recoils about like an AR15.

The two most accurate rifles with the greatest range by far are the two long-barreled bolt guns - the Savage and the Remington. The Remington weighs 10.5 lbs all up with the scope, and the Savage weighs 11.5 lb all up........and they have 26" and 24" barrels respectively. Both are more accurate than the SCAR, but not by much, and the SCAR is at least as accurate if not more so than the RGS. It is at least as handy as the RGS, and by far handier than any of the other 3 big rifles. For reference, the custom-built AR10 I sold weighed a lot....... more than the M1A in the Sage EBR chassis.

Also, the SCAR doesn't poop where it eats. Three range trips now with it, and it is barely dirty at all inside.

It is a darned expensive rifle, but it is nearly perfect. Reliably sub-MOA, light recoiling, lightweight and well-balanced, easy to maintain, mechanically simple, and upgradeable if you've got enough money — although other than the trigger and a good optic, I'm not sure what else you would want to do to it.

[Pawpaw]

Boy first I miss the Sgt., then I forget the link. I get the dummy award today!

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/01/1 ... le-rifles/

Sorry.

Rule 1: Don't sweat the small stuff.

Rule 2: It's all small stuff.

Thanks for the link. It was a good read.

[winters]

i have a sig 716 works pretty good. not as accurate as my bolt gun though.

[PBratton]

Hey Tam, the Ruger GS needs to go back to the factory. It's all backerds.

Good looking group of tools you have there.

I love the new AR-10 I built earlier this year, but, (sorry TAM), my favorite one is the M1A NM, followed by it's older brother the M1.

[The Annoyed Man]

Hey Tam, the Ruger GS needs to go back to the factory. It's all backerds.

Good looking group of tools you have there.

I love the new AR-10 I built earlier this year, but, (sorry TAM), my favorite one is the M1A NM, followed by it's older brother the M1.

Well, like I said, I've been kicking myself ever since I got rid of my M1A. My son was smart enough to keep his. They are indeed wonderful rifles, and it wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit if a Supermatch suddenly turned up in my collection. But for an all around use, rugged, accurate truck gun, I'll take the SCAR.

By the way, you missed the fact that my 700 is also "backerds".

[Bitter Clinger]

FAL is great for reliability, but I'm sad to say that it's a 2-3 MOA rifle - the CETME/G3/PTR series rifles are about the same. They can be made to shoot better but it takes some expense.

The M1A is typically about a 2 MOA shooter but can do better with some work/upgraded parts.

Haven't shot a SCAR yet but TheAnnoyedMan has one and seems to be delighted with its accuracy, and the various AR10-series rifles seem to be decently accurate, too.

I went in the other direction and got a bolt-gun because I was more concerned about accuracy than rate-of-fire - and I don't want to spend thousands of dollars to get an accurate .308

[psijac]

From the Polls it looks like you are getting a M1A,

Congratulations

[psijac]

Hey Tam, the Ruger GS needs to go back to the factory. It's all backerds.

Good looking group of tools you have there.

I love the new AR-10 I built earlier this year, but, (sorry TAM), my favorite one is the M1A NM, followed by it's older brother the M1.

Well, like I said, I've been kicking myself ever since I got rid of my M1A. My son was smart enough to keep his. They are indeed wonderful rifles, and it wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit if a Supermatch suddenly turned up in my collection. But for an all around use, rugged, accurate truck gun, I'll take the SCAR.

By the way, you missed the fact that my 700 is also "backerds".

Have you considered dropping a geissele trigger in your scar to improve accuracy?

[The Marshal]

Have you considered dropping a geissele trigger in your scar to improve accuracy?

I have one on my SCAR 16 (5.56), and it is a thing of beauty. Really in my opinion the best first upgrade.
That said, my SCAR 17 isn't as rough, and I am not in a hurry to change out that trigger.

[The Annoyed Man]

Hey Tam, the Ruger GS needs to go back to the factory. It's all backerds.

Good looking group of tools you have there.

I love the new AR-10 I built earlier this year, but, (sorry TAM), my favorite one is the M1A NM, followed by it's older brother the M1.

Well, like I said, I've been kicking myself ever since I got rid of my M1A. My son was smart enough to keep his. They are indeed wonderful rifles, and it wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit if a Supermatch suddenly turned up in my collection. But for an all around use, rugged, accurate truck gun, I'll take the SCAR.

By the way, you missed the fact that my 700 is also "backerds".

Have you considered dropping a geissele trigger in your scar to improve accuracy?

I put a 3.5 lb single stage Timney trigger in my SCAR. The Timney and Geissele are within a few dollars of one another in price, so that wasn't really a consideration for me. I went with Timney based on two things: 1) I wanted a single stage, not a two stage, and 2) I have a 2.5 lb Timney in my Remington 700 and love it. I've had 3 semiauto rifles with double stage triggers, a Bushmaster 24" Varminter, an M1A, and the AR10 i recently sold. They all had pretty decent triggers, but I just prefer a single stage.

[PBratton]

A couple that came through this week...

Really liked the FDE one.

[LSUTiger]

Thanks to those who have responded and voted.

I think I am going to go the M1A route. But I'm gonna try to kill two birds with one stone, have something capable of filling the rugged battle rifle role if need be but also used it for F Class shooting.

Of the M1A options, Loaded, National Match and Super Match, for an F Class competition rifle, would these be good choices and between the three, to quote Hillary, "what difference does it make", besides price.

Also, how much of a hassle is it to mount optics on an M1A. I know there are mounting options but I was wondering if any one had practical experience using an M1A with optics setup for F class competition.