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Yeah, that gave me a little whiplash too.mojo84 wrote:What's the deal with everything coming down to race or sexual preference? Why not debate the water gun issue without going off into left field on an unrelated issue?
David Grossman of all people has advocated just that.ShootDontTalk wrote:Not to throw gasoline on the fire, but if water gun wars teach bad things, then when will they ban first person shooter video games? Those seem to teach that pulling the trigger creates blood, gore, and violent death in living color. A water gun fight just seems to teach....well I don't think it's apples to apples. Just PC stupidity run amuck.
The influences for the ban come from the same sources: cultural Marxists, gender feminists, and social justice warriors. While I don't see race as relevant at all, sexual orientation is somewhat relevant because the attack is based on the organization being composed of males that espouse traditional values. That peripherally includes sexual orientation though the gender feminists actually hate all men, hetero or homo sexual.mojo84 wrote:What's the deal with everything coming down to race or sexual preference? Why not debate the water gun issue without going off into left field on an unrelated issue?
Actually, they prohibited homosexual membership (gay scouts) until last year. Allowing gay scouts is relatively new, but the ban on homosexual leadership remains and has been upheld by more than one court.Vol Texan wrote: The BSA is not anti-gay. Gay boys are not prohibited from joining or participating. Discussion of sexuality is, and should be, off the table anyway.
It’s not really “left field” because the ultimate source of both discussions is the same – truth and personal responsibility. It used to be that that in the good ‘ol USA, the Bible was considered THE source of truth and morality, and people were held personally responsible for their decisions and actions based on that truth. Did that mean that everyone personally followed Biblical truth all the time? No, not even Christians. It did mean, however, that society didn't argue whether basic truths such as marriage, sexuality, personal responsibility and life were right or wrong. If someone hurt someone else with a gun, they were held responsible for it, not the gun nor the company who made the gun. If someone was offended because of what someone else did or said, even when their words/actions were not directed at them and caused no harm, society said “get over it.” If someone attacked a police officer, or someone else, and were killed when that person defended themselves, society said “he got what he deserved.”mojo84 wrote:What's the deal with everything coming down to race or sexual preference? Why not debate the water gun issue without going off into left field on an unrelated issue?
No it doesn't come down to the same "source of discussions". Sexual preference is not the same as enjoying playing with water guns. The BSA is banning water guns but moving in the direction of having those that prefer the same sex sleeping together in the same tents. Is that OK just because they are the same gender? Will heterosexuals sleeping in the same tent with the opposite gender be the next thing? How does that apply to water guns? You may want to do a search for Robert Gates and gay scout leaders.mloamiller wrote:It’s not really “left field” because the ultimate source of both discussions is the same – truth and personal responsibility. It used to be that that in the good ‘ol USA, the Bible was considered THE source of truth and morality, and people were held personally responsible for their decisions and actions based on that truth. Did that mean that everyone personally followed Biblical truth all the time? No, not even Christians. It did mean, however, that society didn't argue whether basic truths such as marriage, sexuality, personal responsibility and life were right or wrong. If someone hurt someone else with a gun, they were held responsible for it, not the gun nor the company who made the gun. If someone was offended because of what someone else did or said, even when their words/actions were not directed at them and caused no harm, society said “get over it.” If someone attacked a police officer, or someone else, and we’re killed when that person defended themselves, society said “he got what he deserved.”mojo84 wrote:What's the deal with everything coming down to race or sexual preference? Why not debate the water gun issue without going off into left field on an unrelated issue?
None of that is true anymore. “Truth” is defined as whatever the prime-time news quotes the most – it doesn't even have to be a majority of people saying it, just the most vocal. If Person A is offended by something Person B says or does (or won’t do), it’s now Person B’s responsibility to not do/say that any more or risk a lawsuit and/or jail. If someone is killed in the act of committing a crime, it’s not their fault – it’s society’s fault for not giving them enough breaks, and/or the person who killed them was a racist (the person who was killed was an angel, of course). On and on it goes, because after all, if that person can’t be held responsible for their actions, then neither can I.
What’s that got to do with the BSA and water guns? The Truth used to be that water guns were fun and no reasonable person would ever confuse a water gun with a real one, or think you can behave the same with both of them. If someone did, THEY were held responsible for their actions (along with their parents, if it were a kid). Not anymore. Now, if a scout comes home from a water gun fight with his troop, picks up his dad’s gun and shoots someone, it’s the BSA’s fault for giving the wrong impression about guns. Or the gun manufacturer’s fault for not including a DNA-based trigger lock on the gun.
Bottom line, when you remove the foundation of Truth, you never know what will be true tomorrow.
Political correctness will be (has been?) the death of the BSA. It will be the death of the USA, at least as we know it, if not checked.MechAg94 wrote:It aplies to water guns in that the political correctness that pushes for banning water gun fights is the same political correct attitude that pushes for homosexual causes and seeks to undermine anything Christian based whatsoever. The ideas may not be directly related, but the source is the same.
I think BSA has been under tremendous pressure over the last 10 years due to the stance on homosexual scout leaders among other reasons. I figure the pressure to be politically correct is getting to them.