TexasCHLforum.com

puma guy wrote:

EEllis wrote:One of the issues with stored gas is it loses octane as it ages making it less and less acceptable for modern engines. Super will last a bit longer and depending on the ethanol content gas treated with stabil should last about 2 years without a problem tho yearly is the normal interval for fuel rotation. I have heard that the winter fuel, they change the additives used for the seasons, stores a bit better. Now there is also a company pri that makes a product that they claim was developed and used for refinery storage tanks. Supposedly it can keep gas usable for up to 10 years and even make bad gas usable again. Of course you have to treat your gas every 6 months to a year with it.

Winter gasoline has more butane and sometimes pentane in it to meet the RVP requirement and other tests such as V/L. Winter gas will create more pressure at warmer temperatures when stored in sealed containers. When you open your gas cap on a warm day you can hear the pressure being relieved. I am not aware of any additive for gasoline blending that will maintain quality for 10 years. I supervised the gasoline blender for several years at the refinery where I was employed, blending 125,0000 B/D. There may be something as you said, but in my 35 years in a refinery in many capacities I never heard of it. We produced jet fuel that sometimes had to meet military specs which were a little different from commercial Jp4, but we had stopped blending gasoline and aviation gas for the military before I was in the refinery so maybe there was something used for military grade gasoline to extend the life. We did still have some of the dye tanks though.
Back when light crudes were the norm and the straight gasoline cut was much greater it would not get gummy as rapidly as today's blends. The additives used nowadays are for specific tests, to mitigate the issues of heavy crude gasoline production, environmental specs, pipeline specs, O2 stability, rust, gum, as well as proprietary detergents and additives that branded clients require. Pipeline and storage terminals are very picky about what goes into their tanks and lines so the product has to meet their standards as well.

Just to add a little note. If you are using the gasoline in an outboard motor be very careful about using stored gasoline. Per my mechanic the idle jets on them are tiny and get plugged easily by gummy gas.

http://www.priproducts.com/consumer_products.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Never used the product which is why I spoke also of storing with stabil.

AndyC wrote:These guys don't seem to recommend Pri-G, but do like Sta-Bil:

http://www.fuel-testers.com/review_gas_ ... ducts.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(not to argue at all, just showing what they say)

Wouldn't doubt it. If you rotate gas on a yearly basis then Stabil works fine. I included PRI just for information I've never used it.

Along the line of fuel storage. I store my chainsaws dry, but I keep several cans of Trufuel a premixed quart of chainsaw fuel in case of emergency need of chainsaw (have had this need several times) it has a 5 year shelf life unopened, 2 years after opening. It's expense at $6 per 32 oz but it's long shelf life and how well it runs in equipment, it's all metal can with a internal seal makes it safe to store unopened in the shop. I have personally opened a 3 year old can ( I date them) and it ran better than fresh mixed gas.
Side note the exhaust almost smells sweet.

http://www.trufuel50.com/why-use-trufue ... -handling/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Setxjeff wrote:Along the line of fuel storage. I store my chainsaws dry, but I keep several cans of Trufuel a premixed quart of chainsaw fuel in case of emergency need of chainsaw (have had this need several times) it has a 5 year shelf life unopened, 2 years after opening. It's expense at $6 per 32 oz but it's long shelf life and how well it runs in equipment, it's all metal can with a internal seal makes it safe to store unopened in the shop. I have personally opened a 3 year old can ( I date them) and it ran better than fresh mixed gas.

http://www.trufuel50.com/why-use-trufue ... -handling/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I use these pre mixed fuels for my lawn equipment. It's much cleaner and causes much less issues when left in the equipment for months at a time.

AndyC wrote:Ok, am I understanding correctly that it's real hard in Texas to get gasoline which doesn't contain ethanol? That ethanol is really what causes a lot, if not most, of the gumming issues?

The gumminess was a problem before E-10. The problems ethanol present are myriad. MTBE used to be used as an oxygenate but was banned after ground water issues from leaking tanks and ethanol became the choice. Finished gasoline consists mainly of reformed low octane hydrocarbons to increase the octane and thermally, catalytically and hydro cracked gas oils. It is blended with other HC - Butane, pentane, alkylates, aromatics, toluene among others to achieve the end product. Straight run gasoline (from atmospheric distillation) is not even used to blend finished gasoline in most refineries. It's used as feed stock for further processing.

I store gas in NATO cans and dump the gas in the truck and cycle them every January. No Stabil, been doing this for 4 years now, never had any problems.

My truck tank holds 20ish gallons, get it down to 1/4 tank, fill it back up just below 3/4 with regular gas, then go home and top off the tank with the gas can. Get back down to 1/4 of a tank and do the whole thing again. Takes nearly the whole month of January to cycle 6 cans worth.

Someone told me that winter gas stores better than the special additives in the "summer mix". No idea if that is true or not, I just do it in January.

I know that the Rudy's BBQ in Corpus Christi has ethanol free gas so I am sure there are many others in Texas. I have 15 gallons stored with Sta-Bil and will probably rotate at 6 months. I know there is a fire hazard but I have no ignition sources close to my shed and I would rather have gas on hand if needed.

Trivia

In the early 1900's the demand was for wax, grease & lamp oil (kerosene). Gasoline, diesel & bunker had little demand and was pumped to the river.

mrvmax wrote:I know that the Rudy's BBQ in Corpus Christi has ethanol free gas so I am sure there are many others in Texas. I have 15 gallons stored with Sta-Bil and will probably rotate at 6 months. I know there is a fire hazard but I have no ignition sources close to my shed and I would rather have gas on hand if needed.

Not "many". There is a grand total of one in Houston and they specialize in specialty and racing fuels. You can by it by the barrel and it runs like $5 a gallon. There are some marinas and wholesalers that carry it but finding it at a gas station in texas is exceedingly rare.

AndyC wrote:Ok, am I understanding correctly that it's real hard in Texas to get gasoline which doesn't contain ethanol? That ethanol is really what causes a lot, if not most, of the gumming issues?

Andy,
I'm not a petroleum engineer/chemical engineer (which it sounds like a few of the posters are - so heed their advice), just my experiences: regular gas can/will gum/varnish after an extended time, case in point: back in 1986 or so (pre-ethanol) I let one of my least favorite dirt bikes sit all winter without storing it properly, I was young and dumb and learned my lesson - went to crank it up in the Spring and the throttle wouldn't move...it was glued to the carb. Had to take the carb off and let it soak in a vat of B12 Chemtool and then I blew all the jets and orifices out. Worked fine after that. I should've turned the fuel petcock off and ran it until it died.

So, flash forward to the devil that ethanol is. It wreaks havoc with small engine fuel systems, boats (many older boats have fiberglass fuel tanks), etc. fortunately my boat has aluminum fuel tanks. So, what to do? Stabil is good. Best thing for a small engine (genset, mower, etc) is to run all the fuel out of it (or at least turn the petcock off) and the fuel out of the carb.

There are local sources for ethanol free fuel, not a lot of them though. I've seen a weblist/link for stations but don't recall it offhand, a websearch will show it though.

We have a road race car that sits for a month or so between races, we run 110 octane leaded fuel (no ethanol) mainly because of the purity and no ethanol, we can run on less octane (104 is fine) but for the minuscule price difference (usually less than $1 per gallon) it's worth it, we also store some in the garage and trailer. Fuel is available at the local racetracks for around $9-10 per gallon, it's Sunoco, Gulf, or VP Racing, depending on the track. Let me know if you want the locations, it's very pure, that's what we require, ie - no junk. It smells GREAT too LOL!!

There is a website that lists gas stations that sell ethanol free gas at
http://pure-gas.org/about" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and you can test your fuel yourself to see if it is free of ethanol if you want to. Simple test. Many pilots use this that fly with regular unleaded gasoline but can not use ethanol blended gasoline. Don't assume that gas will be ethanol free next week if it is ethanol free today. If you are a pilot you will be testing it.
I personally keep 2 five gallon gas containers and rotate them on a monthly basis into my truck. So at most they are never more than 2 months old. I won't keep gas for a year. Even before ethanol ( which is the biggest rip off ever ) regular gas would gum up carbs if it sat too long. Ethanol just makes it worse.

AndyC wrote:I bought a couple of 5-gal metal gas cans a few years ago and realized yesterday that I'd never actually bothered to fill them up - and that just won't do.

Did a little research and sure 'nuff, gasoline needs a stabilizer to stay fresh for up to a year or perhaps a little more - so off I went and bought a bottle of Sta-Bil from Autozone, measured out 2 oz of the goop per 5 Gal can (awesome measuring gadget built into the Sta-Bil bottle, by the way) and fueled up before stashing them in the garage at home.

It occurred to me that I know very little about the various liquid fuels we take for granted - so who here are our local fuel experts who can share their wisdom about fuel-types, storage, what various fuels can be used for, etc?

If the gas you're storing has ethanol in it & you used the std sta-bil (red color) it won't hold up long-term. It'll hold the gas for at least six months, 'maybe' up to year but no more than that.

Any gas you wish to store which contains ethanol, Marine grade (blue color) is what you should use. It's the only stabilizer I use for storing fuel and especially on any gas going in the chainsaws & log splitter and the lawnmower & generator.
A good example, I forgot to winterize my 36" Poulan or run it dry before I put it away. So it sat in the garage for at least 20 months with fuel in the tank, however it had the marine grade in the fuel. 3 pulls with the choke on, choke off & 2 pulls later(normally what it takes to start it) and I was finishing the tree I pulled down on that same gas this 4th july holiday.
I keep emergency fuel stored in the back yard in metal gas cans treated with marine grade, they sit on a pallet covered with a tarp under a partial wood enclosure. The stuff back there now is 18 months old & it's running my chainsaws and the log splitter right now, no complaints from the equipment at all.
The marine grade is more costly up front but cheaper to use in the long run. The amount you use per gallon is less so the cost becomes less per container, and it works phenomenally well.

Non ethanol fuel treated with red sta-bil will remain good for almost two years, the generator I have now had gas in it for two years treated with red, two years later 3 pulls on the starter rope & it ran through that gas without a complaint.
Yes, I was surprised at that, it sat in the garage with a full tank but I'll be damned if that thing lit off and ran without complaint. And yes..........I did forget I'd put it away without running it dry & left it with a full tank of gas.

Here's a link to gas stations which sell non-ethanol containing gas:

http://pure-gas.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's the stations & locations & phone # for the stations in Tx which sell non-ethanol gas

Alba UNBRANDED 87 90 Lake Fork Marina 903-765-2764 275 Cr 1558 2013-05-26 details
Alpine FINA 86 88 90 Alon 432-837-3566 802 E Ave E 2014-11-10 details
Amarillo UNBRANDED 86 88 91 Interstate Car Care 806-372-1155 1700 S Nelson St 2015-05-16 details
Aransas Pass UNBRANDED 87 Red Fish Bay Boat House 361-758-9000 322 Huff St 2014-10-07 details
Athens UNBRANDED 92 Southside Feed & Supply 903-677-2973 3500 Fm-753 2015-06-28 details
Beaumont VP RACING 87 89 91 C & I Oil Co/ Red Dot 409-833-6331 6050 College St 2015-02-12 details
Bogata UNBRANDED 87 89 93 Bogata Food Mart 903-632-0001 107 Hwy 37 N 2015-02-10 details
Bonham UNBRANDED 87 Mccraw Oil 903-583-7481 2207 N Center St 2015-06-12 details
Bowie UNBRANDED 87 89 91 Allen's 940-872-8101 403 W. Wise 2015-05-26 details
Bowie UNBRANDED 87 89 Ashley Douglass 940-872-2708 1001 E. Wise St 2014-12-07 details
Breckenridge UNBRANDED 93 Pf&E Oil Company Breckenridge 254-559-2761 512 E Walker 2015-06-25 details
Brownwood UNBRANDED 93 Pf&E Oil Company 325-646-1584 3805 Hwy 377 S 2015-06-25 details
Buna CONOCO 87 89 93 Cougar Stop 409-994-9830 35073 Us Hwy 96 S 2015-04-04 details
Burkeville UNBRANDED 87 The Trading Post 13816 Fm 692 2015-07-07 details
Carthage UNBRANDED 87 Youngblood Oil 903-693-5472 439 S Shelby St 2014-05-23 details
Castroville UNBRANDED 87 Royce Groff Oil 830-931-2135 515 Us Hwy 90 E 2015-03-10 details
Center UNBRANDED 91 R & D Distributing 936-598-5361 311 Hurst St 2013-07-02 details
Childress UNBRANDED 87 91 Bridges Service 940-937-3142 110 Ave F Nw 2015-04-15 details
Coldspring UNBRANDED 87 Browder's Marina 936-653-3278 1333 Fm 3278 2015-04-28 details
Columbus UNBRANDED 93 Tri County Petroleum 979-732-8333 2042 Reese Ln 2015-06-25 details
Corpus Christi UNBRANDED 87 L & M Superette 361-993-5437 2222 Airline Rd B4 2015-01-20 details
Corpus Christi UNBRANDED 87 Marker 37 361-949-4750 13317 S Padre Isl Dr 2013-06-18 details
Corpus Christi UNBRANDED 87 Rudy's Bar-B-Que 361-906-0327 6101 S Padre Isl Dr 2013-06-22 details
Crockett UNBRANDED 92 Crockett Farm & Fuel 936-544-3855 1405 E Loop 304 2015-05-30 details
Dalhart UNBRANDED 87 Aeg Petroleum 806-244-0412 419 E 2nd 2015-04-01 details
De Leon CHEVRON 87 Gooden Petroleum 254-893-2125 108 W Navarro Ave. 2014-07-31 details
Deweyville CONOCO 87 89 91 Deweyville Conoco 409-746-2434 3005 E Hwy 12 2014-09-25 details
Dublin UNBRANDED 87 Chigger Ranch Store 254-445-4055 801 E Blackjack St 2014-11-04 details
Dublin FINA 87 M & M Service 254-445-4935 304 E Blackjack St 2014-09-06 details
Dublin UNBRANDED Reeder Oil Co 254-445-2717 112 W O'Neil 2013-12-26 details
Emory UNBRANDED 87 Duko Oil Co 903-473-2857 950 E Lennon Dr 2013-05-25 details
E Tawakoni UNBRANDED 87 89 93 Doc's 903-447-2221 9269 Hwy 276 2015-01-24 details
Floydada CO-OP 86 Producers Co-Op 806-983-3394 210 E Missouri St. 2015-04-28 details
Fredericksburg UNBRANDED 93 100 105 Express Care 830-997-4732 501 S Washington St 2015-05-29 details
Fredericksburg GULF 100 105 110 Kino Oil 830-997-2418 1752 Us Hwy 87 2014-10-23 details
Fruitvale UNBRANDED Means Grocery 903-896-1600 12483 Hwy 80 2015-06-19 details
Gainesville UNBRANDED 87 Enderby Gas 940-665-3457 1405 J.M. Lindsay Blvd 2015-05-31 details
Gainesville CENEX 87 89 91 Red River Farm Coop 940-665-4338 1330 N. Dixon 2015-05-31 details
Gary UNBRANDED 87 Doodlebugs Lk Murvaul Marina 903-693-9301 638 Fm 1234 2014-02-20 details
Goldthwaite TEXACO 87 89 91 Head's Hardware 325-948-3638 900 Us Hwy 84 2015-03-07 details
Gorman UNBRANDED Bob's Grocery & Station 254-734-2765 615 E Lubbock St 2015-05-22 details
Graham UNBRANDED 89 Thriftway 940-549-3831 184 Elm St. 2014-08-04 details
Grandview SUNOCO 93 98 Im Racing Fuels Llc 817-648-1044 6301 E Fm Rd 4 2015-07-06 details
Greenville UNBRANDED 87 91 Daniel's Best Buy 903-455-2052 3512 Stonewall St 2015-04-01 details
Greenville UNBRANDED 87 Reames Market 903-883-2558 4513 Hwy 34 S 2015-05-04 details
Hemphill UNBRANDED 87 Harborlight Marina Resort 409-787-3212 3121 Palo Gaucho 2014-01-17 details
Hemphill UNBRANDED 87 Mid Lake Marina 409-625-4611 Fm 3121 2013-08-26 details
Henderson UNBRANDED 93 Velvin Oil 903-657-2108 403 Webster St. 2014-01-31 details
Hereford UNBRANDED 86 Goodin Fuels 1507 E Park Ave 2015-02-20 details
Hondo UNBRANDED 87 C&W Fuels 830-426-4301 670 Fm 462 N 2014-05-31 details
Houston GULF 93 Hyperfuels 281-447-7200 12455 Westpark Dr # 6 2015-05-20 details
Huxley UNBRANDED 87 Scarbers Grocery 936-368-2279 11654 Fm 2694 2013-07-26 details
Ingleside UNBRANDED 87 Bayside Market 361-776-3450 1297 S Main St 2014-10-11 details
Jasper CONOCO 87 89 92 Conoco Kwik Stop #2 409-489-1990 1113 N Wheeler St 2015-04-21 details
Jefferson UNBRANDED 87 Brushy Landing 903-777-0115 5121 F M 726 2013-11-24 details
Karnack‎ UNBRANDED 87 Johnson's Ranch Marina 903-789-3213 5131 E Cypress Dr 2013-05-26 details
Kilgore SUNOCO 93 98 Lone Star Super Gas 903-983-3384 4298 Hwy 135 N 2015-05-30 details
Kilgore UNBRANDED 93 Oil Masters 903-983-5823 1005 Stone Rd 2015-04-04 details
Kirbyville CONOCO 87 90 93 Dominys 409-423-3513 2008 S Margaret Ave 2015-04-04 details
Longview UNBRANDED 93 4th St Automotive 903-758-4858 1101 N 4th St 2015-01-07 details
Lubbock UNBRANDED 86 Bolton Fuel Center #14 806-765-6768 2116 50th St 2014-08-04 details
Lubbock UNBRANDED 86 Bolton Fuel Center #15 806-794-5994 8002 Slide Rd 2014-11-25 details
Marshall UNBRANDED 87 93 Pete Mccarty Oil Co. 903-938-5105 3900 E End Blvd S 2015-01-20 details
Maud UNBRANDED 87 89 92 Day & Nite # 19 903-585-2233 414 Broadway Ave. 2014-08-03 details
Maud UNBRANDED 87 Maud Bait & Tackle 903-585-5464 722 Broadway Ave 2013-03-30 details
Miami UNBRANDED 86 88 90 Car Care Inc 720-326-6529 101 W. Commercial 2015-01-06 details
Mineola UNBRANDED 86 Beckat Oil & Fuel 903-638-6925 115 W Front St 2014-10-24 details
Mineola CHEVRON 85 Young's Chevron 903-569-3050 116 N Newsom St 2014-04-29 details
Mt Enterprise UNBRANDED 93 C R Chapman Groc 903-822-3261 101 S Railroad Ave 2014-05-10 details
Mt Pleasant UNBRANDED 87 Jackson Oil Co 903-572-1852 310 W 15th St 2015-02-10 details
Mt Vernon UNBRANDED Tall Tree Marina 903-860-2198 4445 Fm Rd 2723 2013-05-26 details
New Boston VP RACING 87 100 Skaggs Country Store 903-628-7351 3070 Us Hwy 82 W 2015-02-20 details
Odem CENEX 87 Planters Co-Op 361-368-4111 200 Voss Ave 2014-05-23 details
Orange Grove UNBRANDED 87 Herschap Propane 361-384-2355 406 E Orange Ave 2014-05-08 details
Perryton CENEX 91 Perryton Equity Xch 806-435-4016 202 S Amherst St 2015-04-22 details
Pittsburg UNBRANDED 91 Barefoot Bay Marina 903-856-3643 5244 Fm 1520 2013-05-23 details
Plainview CO-OP United Farm Industries 806-293-5103 301 E 24th St 2014-08-01 details
Point UNBRANDED 89 Kenny's Landing 903-447-9962 201 Hwy 276 2015-06-30 details
Port Lavaca UNBRANDED Port Alto Marina 100 Port St 2015-04-02 details
Presidio TEXACO 87 91 Tom's Service 432-229-3259 604 O'Reilly St 2013-05-26 details
Quanah UNBRANDED 87 89 93 Riley's Gas & Go 940-663-2007 501 W 11th St 2015-02-25 details
Quitman UNBRANDED 87 89 Minnow Bucket Marina 903-878-2500 3035 Hwy 154 2014-07-29 details
Quitman UNBRANDED 88 Papa Bear Cafe/Marina 903-878-7114 1450 Cnty Rd 1416 2013-05-26 details
Refugio UNBRANDED 100 Rooke Field Airport 361-526-4241 255 Kelley Rd 2013-10-28 details
Rockport UNBRANDED 87 Cove Harbor Marina 361-790-5438 121 Cove Harbor N 2014-10-23 details
Rusk UNBRANDED 91 Oakland Gen Store 903-683-6338 10970 Us Hwy 84 2015-05-06 details
Sabine Pass UNBRANDED 88 Sabine Pass Port Aurthority 409-971-2411 5960 S 1st Ave 2015-05-29 details
Saltillo UNBRANDED 87 Weaver Store 903-648-2237 178 Fm 269 2013-05-26 details
Snyder FINA 87 89 91 (Alon) Handi-Mart 325-573-2119 1105 Us Hwy 180 2015-03-10 details
Snyder UNBRANDED 87 91 National Fuel Gas Distributor Corp 325-573-4160 2208 Ave R 2015-04-23 details
Sulphur Spgs UNBRANDED 87 Hall Oil Co 101 Bill Bradford Rd 2014-08-05 details
Uvalde UNBRANDED 87 C&W Fuels 830-426-4301 2900 E Main St 2014-03-27 details
Vernon UNBRANDED 87 Allstar 940-552-9411 1129 Main St 2015-02-25 details
Whitesboro UNBRANDED 87 91 Enderby Gas 903-564-3649 20544 Us Hwy 377 2015-06-17 details
Wichita Falls CITGO 93 Food Barn 940-764-3069 3707 Sheppard Access Rd 2015-03-04 details
Wichita Falls UNBRANDED 87 Lucky Mart 940-692-2611 4510 Fairway Blvd 2015-05-03 details
Wichita Falls UNBRANDED 93 Tami's 940-687-2224 4510 Rhea Rd 2015-07-02 details
Wills Point UNBRANDED 87 Robertson's Ham 903-873-8645 28323 I-20 2015-04-23 details
Winnsboro UNBRANDED 86 87 93 Winkle Oil Co 903-342-6856 301 W Carnegie St 2014-01-19 details
Winnsboro UNBRANDED 91 Winnsboro Muni Airport 903-960-5136 2820 Fm 3530 2013-05-28 details
Yantis PHILLIPS 66 87 Fisherman's One Stop 903-383-7121 7933 W Fm 515 2013-05

I don't know beans about sea-foam or any of those things as fuel preservatives, the marine grade sta-bil or the std sta-bil is what I use & I've personally seen the results, personally I don't see the need to bother with anything else given how well it works.