TexasCHLforum.com

Abraham wrote:cyphertext,

"Even if you are "walking about", you should at least carry ID."

If you aren't carrying, you as a U.S. citizen aren't by law required to carry an I.D.

If I care to go for a walk/bike ride/hike, etc. sans pistol, I can do so without an I.D.

LEO's may ask for an I.D., but I don't have to provide one when I'm out and about without my pistol and not under arrest.

As you may understand from what I'm posting, this demand for I.D., is a bit of a sore point with me.

My Dad was a WW11 veteran and used to tell me about this as it made him furious when countries like Germany during the war years could stop any citizen innocently going about their everyday business and demand "their papers".

Not so in the U.S. if you're simply going about your innocent business.

I have never experienced having an officer asking me for an ID while I am just out and about. However, I don't carry ID just for the police... there are many other reasons why having an ID on you makes sense, even while just "walking about".

I can understand your Dad not liking the Germans getting checked for their papers. HOWEVER that was then and in Germany and for a completely differently reason. Anyone who feels that way now should have second thought now and here. Next time you go to an airport just be glad they are checking on everybody to try to find a bad guy that might kill you. When ask for ID I am more than happy to show mine because I have nothing to hide. I could go on but I ain't because paranoid folks just won't understand.

ldj1002 wrote:I can understand your Dad not liking the Germans getting checked for their papers. HOWEVER that was then and in Germany and for a completely differently reason. Anyone who feels that way now should have second thought now and here. Next time you go to an airport just be glad they are checking on everybody to try to find a bad guy that might kill you. When ask for ID I am more than happy to show mine because I have nothing to hide. I could go on but I ain't because paranoid folks just won't understand.

Except....
That goes out the window however when ISIS shows up in South America having used forged Greece passports to fly. Personally I don't mind showing my ID...but sometimes I'm troubled by the attempt to maintain illusions of security. Consider that you can actually fly without proper ID (see below). If that is possible, then the whole issue of ONLY those with "proper ID" may fly goes out the window. Same for those with valid DL who will very soon find that their state issued DL is no longer valid for TSA checkpoints (think that is five states, including NY). So those folks, with valid DL will find that ID not proper because it doesn't meet REAL ID requirements.

http://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-scre ... tification

In the event you arrive at the airport without proper ID, because it is lost or at home, you may still be allowed to fly. TSA officers will request you present two other forms of ID bearing your name. One of the items must bear your name and other identifying information such as photo, address, phone number, social security number or date of birth.

There is no standard list of what alternate forms of ID are acceptable. Examples include: temporary paper driver's licenses, non-driver IDs, social security cards, birth certificates, marriage licenses and credit cards.

geeezzz,
"I have nothing to hide"

It's one thing to respect authority, another to fall at its feet.

Given human history with support for tyrannical regimes and other like organizations, it must be human nature to seek a leader. No matter what kind.

My understanding is that police are allowed to ask for ID, they cannot require you to produce a CHL without asking for your ID.

cyphertext/ldj1002 ,

You guys don't get it, I understand...principle is hard for some to accept.

Being compliant is easy - Principle not so easy...

Show me your papers!

Schnell!!!

MeMelYup,

If you're not carrying, are committing no crime, no, you don't HAVE to produce I.D. just because an LEO requests it.

They certainly can request, but you don't have to produce.

You can tell them legally tell them to go pound sand if they demand I.D. if (once again) you're simply going about your innocent business without carrying and not committing an offense.

Abraham wrote:MeMelYup,

If you're not carrying, are committing no crime, no, you don't HAVE to produce I.D. just because an LEO requests it.

They certainly can request, but you don't have to produce.

You can tell them legally tell them to go pound sand if they demand I.D. if (once again) you're simply going about your innocent business without carrying and not committing an offense.

If you are walking down the street with your hands in your pockets and an officer demands ID for no reason you are not required by law to show your ID. If you are in a store that has just been robbed without you knowing it and the responding officer demands ID you are obligated to identify yourself, as there are extenuating circumstances. If you have a CHL and are carrying you must respond with ID and CHL.

There is no law in Texas that requires a person to carry ID all the time. There are requirements for certain activities that a person carries ID. If you are driving and an officer pulls you over for a traffic violation, you must provide ID. If you are carrying a firearm with a CHL and an officer has reason to stop you and ask for ID, you must provide ID and CHL. If you purchase merchandise and the cashier asks for ID, you can refuse, but the store can also refuse to let the transaction go through.

If you are walking down the street and have a heart attack wouldn't it be nice to have an ID on you?

MeMelYup,

You and I are in agreement.

There are many instances you must produce an I.D.

I'm focusing on (and only on) a situation where you don't have to produce an I.D.

Sigh, but many seem to have trouble understanding my point...

MeMelYup wrote:

Abraham wrote:MeMelYup,

If you're not carrying, are committing no crime, no, you don't HAVE to produce I.D. just because an LEO requests it.

They certainly can request, but you don't have to produce.

You can tell them legally tell them to go pound sand if they demand I.D. if (once again) you're simply going about your innocent business without carrying and not committing an offense.

If you are walking down the street with your hands in your pockets and an officer demands ID for no reason you are not required by law to show your ID. If you are in a store that has just been robbed without you knowing it and the responding officer demands ID you are obligated to identify yourself, as there are extenuating circumstances. If you have a CHL and are carrying you must respond with ID and CHL.

There is no law in Texas that requires a person to carry ID all the time. There are requirements for certain activities that a person carries ID. If you are driving and an officer pulls you over for a traffic violation, you must provide ID. If you are carrying a firearm with a CHL and an officer has reason to stop you and ask for ID, you must provide ID and CHL. If you purchase merchandise and the cashier asks for ID, you can refuse, but the store can also refuse to let the transaction go through.

If you are walking down the street and have a heart attack wouldn't it be nice to have an ID on you?

What law requires you to identify yourself to an officer if you are in a store that has been robbed? What is the penalty for refusing to do so?

ScottDLS wrote:

MeMelYup wrote:

Abraham wrote:MeMelYup,

If you're not carrying, are committing no crime, no, you don't HAVE to produce I.D. just because an LEO requests it.

They certainly can request, but you don't have to produce.

You can tell them legally tell them to go pound sand if they demand I.D. if (once again) you're simply going about your innocent business without carrying and not committing an offense.

If you are walking down the street with your hands in your pockets and an officer demands ID for no reason you are not required by law to show your ID. If you are in a store that has just been robbed without you knowing it and the responding officer demands ID you are obligated to identify yourself, as there are extenuating circumstances. If you have a CHL and are carrying you must respond with ID and CHL.

There is no law in Texas that requires a person to carry ID all the time. There are requirements for certain activities that a person carries ID. If you are driving and an officer pulls you over for a traffic violation, you must provide ID. If you are carrying a firearm with a CHL and an officer has reason to stop you and ask for ID, you must provide ID and CHL. If you purchase merchandise and the cashier asks for ID, you can refuse, but the store can also refuse to let the transaction go through.

If you are walking down the street and have a heart attack wouldn't it be nice to have an ID on you?

What law requires you to identify yourself to an officer if you are in a store that has been robbed? What is the penalty for refusing to do so?

No law, but they can detain you until all their questions are answered.

MeMelYup wrote: ...
No law, but they can detain you until all their questions are answered

Does that mean indefinitely if I choose not to provide my name? How long may I be detained, without being arrested (which requires probable cause)?

ScottDLS wrote:

MeMelYup wrote: ...
No law, but they can detain you until all their questions are answered

Does that mean indefinitely if I choose not to provide my name? How long may I be detained, without being arrested (which requires probable cause)?

I don't know, but it can be long enough to mess up your day.

Abraham wrote:cyphertext/ldj1002 ,

You guys don't get it, I understand...principle is hard for some to accept.

Being compliant is easy - Principle not so easy...

Show me your papers!

Schnell!!!

No, you don't get it... Again, I have never experienced a police officer just walking up to me and asking for ID. However, if I am outside of my home, I carry ID. If I am walking across a street and am hit by a car, an ID is a nice thing to have on you so that they can notify family.

Maybe while I am out, I decide to stop in at a local pub and have a beer... guess what, they might ask for my ID! Maybe I stop by Walmart to get a bottle of wine and a box of ammo while I am out... Dang it, they are demanding that I show my papers!

See, there is a huge difference between carrying an ID for my own personal convenience vs. providing ID to LEO when not legally required.

Abraham wrote:MeMelYup,

You and I are in agreement.

There are many instances you must produce an I.D.

I'm focusing on (and only on) a situation where you don't have to produce an I.D.

Sigh, but many seem to have trouble understanding my point...

Abraham - I get your point and agree wholeheartedly.

The go along to get along "because you have nothing to hide" types, I get it, its easy to comply. But for too long we complied and now there is an expectation and even believe within a large number of the LEO community that you must have ID and must show it when asked. How many Germans in the Third Reich do you think just complied because it was easier until it was too late ? My favorite line has always been 'Evil happens when good men stand by and do nothing...' (that may not be the exact quote but it is in essence the same thing).

Not trying to call anyone here on the forums out in particular - just a personal pet peeve when people say things like 'If you have nothing to hide, why not just comply ?' - It makes my blood boil