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Re: A bit of a protest in Irving, Tx
Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:48 pm
by VMI77
The Annoyed Man wrote:mr1337 wrote:Richbirdhunter wrote:mr1337 wrote:This is about the most un-American thing I can think of. They were there to intimidate, no question.
These people are terribly misguided. The religion is not the problem. It's specifically those who distort the religion who are the problem. If these people really wanted to do some good to thwart terrorism, perhaps they should stop by the recruiting office.
We have the right to assemble, and that is the most American thing we can do. I wish some Muslims would have stood shoulder to shoulder along with the Baptist and said, No terrorism in Texas!
We absolutely do have the right to assemble, and I'm not saying these people weren't within their rights. What I'm saying is that they're bullies.
From what I gathered from the article, they weren't protesting terrorism, they were protesting Islam.
How would you feel if a bunch of armed Muslims showed up at your church with AK47's in hand protesting Christianity? You'd probably be pretty offended, and rightly so.
Actually, I agree with mr1337. There are a couple of things going on here, and it begins with the Irving mayor emphatically stating that Sharia will not have force of law in Irving. But she didn't do that in a vacuum. Here is some back story:
http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/musl ... -response/. If you read what she ACTUALLY did and said, it was absolutely neutral with regard to Islam as a religion, and it merely upheld the Constitution of the United States of America.....which is no sin in a politician. Her announcement resulted in a group of some local Muslims being offended and speaking up about it. Now, they have a 1st Amendment right to their opinions and to give voice to those opinions, but their opinions do not trump the 1st Amendment, nor the entire rest of the Constitution, and so their rights notwithstanding, they were in the wrong to insist on a Sharia court. THAT is where it should have ended.
But it didn't end there. There was an anti-muslim backlash from the non-muslim population, and that backlash was fanned by the media. And now we have these clowns showing up at a mosque carrying long guns. Let me tell you something..... If you show up at
MY church carrying long guns, I am going to take it EXACTLY as the implied armed-threat that it IS, I'm going to go to my car and retrieve my AR and go back inside, and you and I are going to have an armed confrontation. IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?
Forum rules forbid me from using the kind of language to describe the action of these "protesters" that it deserves. Here is what they ACTUALLY stand for: they would kill the 1st Amendment to protect it. What sheer stupidity.
I am an unapologetic evangelical Christian, and I sincerely believe that my religion is better than Islam. But I have fellow citizens, friends (Beiruty among them), and a couple of neighbors who
sincerely believe the opposite, and I have a duty of good citizenship to live alongside them in peace, so long as they respect my right to my own 1st Amendment protections. It goes without saying that the establishment of a Sharia court violates the Constitution, but lets be honest......we have a president and Congress who do that on a daily basis.....and it doesn't end there. But citizens cannot claim to be defenders of the Constitution when they show up in protest outside of a place of worship, armed with openly carried long guns, and claim that they are there in protection of their first Amendment rights - when their goal is to withhold that right from members of another religion.
It's just wrong.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying except the religious comparison between Christianity and Islam. Islam isn't simply a religion, it's a system of government. To the extent that it is a system of government it is incompatible with American values.
That said, the left's hatred of Christianity and love for Islam is full of delicious irony. Islam is far more of a threat to the idols of the left than it is to those of us who retain traditional values.
Re: A bit of a protest in Irving, Tx
Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:54 pm
by mr1337
Islam is not the enemy. It's a certain group is extremists that have twisted their scriptures to justify and brainwash people into doing what they're doing. That group is ISIS/ISIL/Daesh. They're about as Muslim as Westboro Baptist Church are Christian. In fact, probably less so.
Bullying minorities is not the way to handle the situation.
We can't make Muslims our enemy - they need to be our greatest ally. The more we make them our enemy, the more they will act like it.
Re: A bit of a protest in Irving, Tx
Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:17 pm
by VMI77
mr1337 wrote:Islam is not the enemy. It's a certain group is extremists that have twisted their scriptures to justify and brainwash people into doing what they're doing. That group is ISIS/ISIL/Daesh. They're about as Muslim as Westboro Baptist Church are Christian. In fact, probably less so.
Bullying minorities is not the way to handle the situation.
We can't make Muslims our enemy - they need to be our greatest ally. The more we make them our enemy, the more they will act like it.
Our actions around the world have already made a lot of Muslims our enemies.
You're presenting the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. That's a little ironic coming from you unless you're a Muslim. However, it isn't just the violent extremists that are a problem. According to surveys a majority of Muslims in the US support the imposition of Sharia law. That's not "extremist" in the sense you seem to be using the term. The religious aspects of Islam are not a problem it's the governmental system of Islam that is the problem, and that doesn't go away with ISIS or the elimination of violent extremists.
Re: A bit of a protest in Irving, Tx
Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:26 pm
by dlh
All of this rhetoric reminds me of the No True Mus---er---No True-Scotsman Fallacy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
dlh
Re: A bit of a protest in Irving, Tx
Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:28 pm
by WTR
Small group of ignorant ( bordering on stupid) buffoons.
Re: A bit of a protest in Irving, Tx
Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:00 pm
by Richbirdhunter
WTR wrote:Small group of ignorant ( bordering on stupid) buffoons.
There's over a billion Muslims in the world, if 1% of them are a "Small group of ignorant buffoons"
We are in a world of hurt
Re: A bit of a protest in Irving, Tx
Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:01 pm
by mojo84
This is a video of a portion of a question and answer presentation by a former Muslim that has converted to Christianity. The guy is highly intelligent and it may shed some light on where some of the confusion comes from regarding whether or not Islam is a religion of peace.
This isn't intended to spark a religious debate. It is intended to help some of us that have trouble reconciling some of the contradictory info we hear about Islam. Just take it as food for thought.
https://youtu.be/XNseMjQkxvI
You can find more info on Nabeel here.
http://rzim.org/bio/nabeel-qureshi
Re: A bit of a protest in Irving, Tx
Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:15 pm
by WTR
Richbirdhunter wrote:WTR wrote:Small group of ignorant ( bordering on stupid) buffoons.
There's over a billion Muslims in the world, if 1% of them are a "Small group of ignorant buffoons"
We are in a world of hurt
I'm talking about the protesters. More people have been killed in the name of religion ( all religions) than for any other reason.
I too could care less about your religion, just leave me be. Grand standing does not impress me.
Re: A bit of a protest in Irving, Tx
Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:39 pm
by Richbirdhunter
WTR wrote:Richbirdhunter wrote:WTR wrote:Small group of ignorant ( bordering on stupid) buffoons.
There's over a billion Muslims in the world, if 1% of them are a "Small group of ignorant buffoons"
We are in a world of hurt
I'm talking about the protesters. More people have been killed in the name of religion ( all religions) than for any other reason.
I too could care less about your religion, just leave me be. Grand standing does not impress me.
My name is Rich and I am a Christian. I love Jesus and He is my Lord and Savior.
Im grateful that you could care less about christianity, but my prayer is that you care more.
Re: A bit of a protest in Irving, Tx
Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:56 pm
by chuck j
One of the problems with comparing Christians to Muslims in this country is that Christians don't have GOD's instruction and permission to commit the atrocity's described in the Koran on peoples not of their belief . They have 'devine' justification to do as they please in the name of Allah . I believe that's proven out every day now , correct me if I'm wrong ?
Re: A bit of a protest in Irving, Tx
Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:20 pm
by G.A. Heath
Guys we are getting off topic and lets get back on before an admin or mod has to do something about the thread. This thread is about the protesters and not a discussion on religion.
The protesters were more interested in getting attention and intimidating people in my opinion, with that in mind it looks like they got a copy of OCT/CATI/OCTC's playbook and ran with it.
Re: A bit of a protest in Irving, Tx
Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:24 pm
by Abraham
G.A. Heath,
Agreed!
Re: A bit of a protest in Irving, Tx
Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:28 pm
by chuck j
Probably right .
Re: A bit of a protest in Irving, Tx
Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:39 pm
by mojo84
It is really hard for some to sort out who is a radical Muslim and who isn't since the radicals use mosques to recruit, train and harbor the radicals. Its known there are radical Immams that use their mosques for such. It's a case of not all Muslims are radical extremist but all of the radical extremists that are acting in the name of allah are Muslims. It creates a very challenging dynamic and some people such as these protesters act out whether their actions are right or not.
The video I posted has some good points to consider.