TexasCHLforum.com

zatoman wrote:

baldeagle wrote:

zatoman wrote:

LSUTiger wrote:This is a really strange question for a first time poster on a forum like this.

I know it's a huge issue. I'm about as pro 2nd Amendment as it is possible to be. My comment was that I find it interesting that after all of the hoopla (mostly media generated), that I see that no one open carries and next to no one concealed carries.

And how would you know that?

I assume you mean how would I know that next to no one carries concealed. I agree that IWB may be difficult to tell. Do people actually carry IWB? Seems very uncomfortable. Will leave that to the hard core. But not that hard to tell if someone is carrying OWB. Anything but a pocket gun always leaves a bump in the clothing.

Yeah. I carry in a bellyband every time I leave the house. Sig P239 and two spare magazines.

I don't think concealed carry is quite as easy to detect as you think it is.

....but I left them all in for context. I'm guessing you have never carried, don't have a license, and have no intention of getting one. So, why are your here?[/quote]

I carry daily. OWB holster with LCR 38 spl. Have had a license since 2008. The stable includes a Colt 6920, 1911, Beretta 92fs, Glock 19, and Browning Hi-Power. Thought I would fit in here, but guess you guys have an agenda that I am not aware of.

zatoman, I'm not from the urban areas, but you might be surprised how many conceal carry in East Texas and no they are not that easy to detect. I doubt you consider the number of "little ole ladies" that have a small pistol in their purse (some licensed and some not) or the number of men that have a small revolver in the pocket of their overalls or pants all the time. I carry pretty much all the time (9mm Shield) , I use IWB crossbreed and actually don't find it uncomfortable (sometimes actually have to check and make sure it's there), I use a holster shirt, and I use a smart carry depending on where I am going to what I am doing. My job allows me to carry and it is fairly important the firearm remains secure as well as concealed (no printing). I've been in a group of friends from church when concealed carry came up and one of them asked the overall group if they thought anyone actually carried at church. I haven't missed carrying in almost 8 years at this same church. I think the numbers or percentages of concealed carry folks may be more difficult to pin down than you might think. We don't carry signs

treeman wrote:zatoman, I'm not from the urban areas, but you might be surprised how many conceal carry in East Texas and no they are not that easy to detect. I doubt you consider the number of "little ole ladies" that have a small pistol in their purse (some licensed and some not) or the number of men that have a small revolver in the pocket of their overalls or pants all the time. I carry pretty much all the time (9mm Shield) , I use IWB crossbreed and actually don't find it uncomfortable (sometimes actually have to check and make sure it's there), I use a holster shirt, and I use a smart carry depending on where I am going to what I am doing. My job allows me to carry and it is fairly important the firearm remains secure as well as concealed (no printing). I've been in a group of friends from church when concealed carry came up and one of them asked the overall group if they thought anyone actually carried at church. I haven't missed carrying in almost 8 years at this same church. I think the numbers or percentages of concealed carry folks may be more difficult to pin down than you might think. We don't carry signs

Thanks for the information. The more good guys, the better.

zatoman wrote:....
I carry daily. OWB holster with LCR 38 spl. Have had a license since 2008. The stable includes a Colt 6920, 1911, Beretta 92fs, Glock 19, and Browning Hi-Power. Thought I would fit in here, but guess you guys have an agenda that I am not aware of.

zatoman, this is a topic than can evoke strong emotions. Some folks here may seem a bit touchy. Sorry about that.

In answer to your original post, I carry openly daily and have done so since I bought my first pistol in 2013. I usually put on my pistol before I put on my shoes. I'll be carrying openly as I get gas tomorrow morning, as I take my children out for supper, and as I go to the Sheepdog Seminar in Ft. Worth on Saturday. I carry openly where I can, conceal as the situation dictates, and disarm only if I must.

As to percentages, there is no way to accurately tell. My wife carries about 1/2 time. She always carries if I am not with her. My father has a handgun in his car without a license (MPA).

What you are seeing in Texas is very similar to what I have seen as I carried openly in AZ, CO, NM, and OK in that I rarely saw others carrying openly. However, in these other states, I have only seen one sign (AZ) and only been asked to conceal at one business (NM).

So, yes, it is much ado about nothing in that the dire warnings of blood in the streets and constant police harassment have not come to pass. On the other hand, I have seen several messages here from those who feel they have been significantly and negatively impacted by the new law. I am still cautiously optimistic.

Thanks oljames.

IWB is not uncomfortable if you do it right. It mostly depends on how I position my particular holster on my hip. 3:00-4:00 works well for me.

I carried my full size glock 21 IWB on a recent road trip. Just had to pull my pants up a little higher before I sat down. I carry a tiny Taurus TCP 380 IWB pretty much every day. I have found IWB to be preferential to pocket carry for comfort as well as utility. I have carried OWB some when I can wear a heavier outer garment and will certainly do more so in the future, but I can carry IWB and my wife is pretty much the only person who can detect that I'm carrying because she recognizes my belt clips.

zatoman wrote: I carry daily. OWB holster with LCR 38 spl. Have had a license since 2008. The stable includes a Colt 6920, 1911, Beretta 92fs, Glock 19, and Browning Hi-Power. Thought I would fit in here, but guess you guys have an agenda that I am not aware of.

I have not been here very long, but I found out soon enough that anti activists troll here to find ammunition. I was suspicious of you because you said, "Do people actually carry IWB? Seems very uncomfortable. Will leave that to the hard core."

This made you sound out of place to me. A poll on this site reveals that more of us carry IWB than any other way. If that makes us hard core, then many, many of us are hard core. Just wanted to make sure you were not trolling for the anti's.

Like handguns, the method of carry each of us chooses is quite personal. Some folks have tried IWB and found it uncomfortable enough they won't consider it again. Others tried several different gun/holster combinations before hitting on something that works for them. IMO, and remember I am simply stating what works for me, a good gunbelt, along with an IWB hybrid holster with two tuckable attachment points (think Galco KingTuk, CrossBreed SuperTuck or Comp-Tac Minotaur M-Tac) allows for excellent comfort and very good to excellent concealment even when you need to tuck your shirt due to dress expectations. I started with an M&P9C in an M-Tac, and still carry that quite often, but I also have a BodyGuard 380 in a similar holster from another manufacturer (with Comp-Tac clips) for times I want to be a bit lower profile yet. I haven't found a need for OWB, but can see the appeal if IWB isn't that comfortable to you.

IWB = Hard core?

No, no it doesn't.

It = Personal choice and nothing more.

zatoman wrote:

LSUTiger wrote:This is a really strange question for a first time poster on a forum like this.

I know it's a huge issue. I'm about as pro 2nd Amendment as it is possible to be. My comment was that I find it interesting that after all of the hoopla (mostly media generated), that I see that no one open carries and next to no one concealed carries.

I think open carry is and will continue to be fairly rare. I view the passage of open carry to be a win based on principle. However, some may consider it a net loss based on their particular circumstance and perspective. If it has negatively impacted them, I understand their position.

As far as concealed carry, I think there is a very small percentage of the total population that conceal carried on a daily basis. Most of the licensees I know carry on occasion as they think it is warranted and needed. Of my circle of friends with whom I have discussed conceal carry, I carry far more regularly than any of them do.

While 930,000 licensees is significant, it's a small percentage of the overall population. Nonetheless, it is still important for us to have the choice, whether we choose to conceal or open carry. The primary sources of all the hoopla and controversy has been generated by too rabid irrational groups of open carriers and anti gun nuts. Once generated, the media picked it up and ran with it.

Be thankful for the choice and those that do carry. The hoopla will die down in time provided additional ammo isn't served up to the anti gun crowd and media.

By the way, I actually prefer IWB carry using my Crossbreed or Alien Gear holsters. I do not have a top quality OWB holster. My OWB holster is mediocre in quality.

zatoman wrote:I am new to this forum, so please forgive me if this has been beaten to death. I live in Houston and get out often. Being interested in any open carry fallout, I have been looking hard to find people open carrying or even printing. I have not seen a soul. That is both good (people are responsible) and bad (irritated the media and gun haters for nothing). Does anyone carry openly? What is your best guess on the percentage of people that carry concealed. I'm thinking well less than 1%.

I'll approach your question from a political and public relations perspective. Concealed-carry has been a non-issue for law enforcement and the public since the first CHLs went into effect on January 1, 1996. It has been a non-issue for businesses since 9/1/1997 when HB2909 went into effect creating Tex. Penal Code §30.06. We have a fantastic track record and there are very few people that oppose concealed-carry unless for a political reason.

It's impossible to say what percentage of licensees carry daily, but based upon my questioning of LTC students and others at our shooting club, I suspect it is much higher than one might think. I believe this is especially true in light of recent events in Paris and San Bernardino. I also think the percentage of women licensees who carry daily is higher than men because so many of them carry in their purses.

Open-carry is quickly becoming a non-issue for the public, law enforcement and LTC's. None of the tragic and/or frightening events predicted by anti-gun groups have occurred, none of the law enforcement harassment predicted by a few over-the-top open-carry supporters have occurred and the evening news isn't constantly focusing on what your local merchant is going to do about open-carry in their store. In short, it was a tempest in a teapot in terms of application, with some exceptions. Those exceptions deal with the number of 30.07 signs posted on businesses as a result of the long running negative publicity garnered by some open-carry groups. There are more 30.07 signs posted than would have otherwise been the case. Some of those businesses are also posting 30.06 signs and this understandably angers LTCs who have been able to carry in those locations for 20 years. Progress is being made toward bringing down the new 30.06 signs and even some 30.07 signs.

The law enforcement community and district attorneys deserve a lot of credit for relieving the public's concerns about open-carry. The town hall meetings conducted all over the state, some of which were made available on YouTube and other video outlets, were very positive and pointed out that only licensees would be carrying openly. These folks also pointed out that CHL/LTCs are law-abiding people whom the public need not fear. That exposure was far more valuable than anything the NRA or TSRA could have done because it came from an objective group of people, not Second Amendment activists and organizations.

In order to make open-carry truly a non-issue, we must work diligently to remove 30.06 and 30.07 signs.
Chas.

Abraham wrote:IWB = Hard core?

No, no it doesn't.

It = Personal choice and nothing more.

I IWB carried a full size S&W M&P9 and compact M&P9c since getting my license in 2009. I recently switched to OWB for comfort and do not plan to OC except for getting out of vehicle to pump gas (hasn't happened yet) or on my own property.

I did OC at my MIL's apartment when packing her things to move and putting things in my car. Someone walking a dog came by, pretty sure she noticed, but nothing was said - she didn't scream or call police.

Sometimes I can tell if someone is concealing, most of the time not.

Charles L. Cotton wrote: In order to make open-carry truly a non-issue, we must work diligently to remove 30.06 and 30.07 signs.
Chas.

When you say we must work dilligently to remove 30.06 and 30.07, are you referring to the legislature, or are you reffering to the LTCers... Or both?

If you are referring to LTCers, I'm not sure there is much we can do other than be on our best profesional behavior and vote wisely. I certainly do not want to go into a business and try to convey to the business owner or manager the merits of allowing CC or OC. It can be a hot button topic and I would not want the business to think we are argumentive and etc.

Do you have any suggestions on what we can do to help?

Thanks.

pt145ss wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote: In order to make open-carry truly a non-issue, we must work diligently to remove 30.06 and 30.07 signs.
Chas.

When you say we must work dilligently to remove 30.06 and 30.07, are you referring to the legislature, or are you reffering to the LTCers... Or both?

If you are referring to LTCers, I'm not sure there is much we can do other than be on our best profesional behavior and vote wisely. I certainly do not want to go into a business and try to convey to the business owner or manager the merits of allowing CC or OC. It can be a hot button topic and I would not want the business to think we are argumentive and etc.

Do you have any suggestions on what we can do to help?

Thanks.

The only thing that can be done legislatively is to exclude commercial property open to the public from TPC §§30.05 and 30.06. That's a very hard sell. I wouldn't even attempt to do so with §30.07.

The only way to see 30.07 signs come down is for open-carry to be a non-issue in the eyes of business owners. That comes from exactly what you said, professional behavior on the part of LTCs. I have a different plan to encourage removal of new 30.06 signs, but I can't put that on the Forum because our opponents are reading it daily.

Chas.