TexasCHLforum.com

nirvana wrote: Sorry.Maybe I did'nt make the fact clear that I have had a CHL for almost nine years. Will I have to surrender it taking the probation deal?

Yes, it will cause you to have to surrender your license. As others stated, I personally would fight the charge with the federal case ruling as your defense.

WildBill wrote:

Javier730 wrote:

casp625 wrote:

nirvana wrote:Greetings all. I have been a longtime lurker for years. I need some info I can't find.

In a nutshell I got a disorderly ticket for flipping the bird.
I have a lawyer. If I do the probation thing which is pay a fine and not get another ticket for same offense in the same city as first one after 90 days. It goes away but does it go away in regards to my CHL?

My lawyer says it will be a "deferred disposition and dismissed."


So will "finger waving" i.e. what I consider as protected speech having any bearing on my CHL if I take this plea?

Do I need to find a Florida instructor??

Thanx!

Find a better lawyer. How exactly did your conduct "tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace" merely by flipping the bird?

The supreme Court ruled it was freedom of speech to flip the bird to LEOs (not saying you did it to a LEO) so who did you give the finger to? Obama?

How about you tell us the whole story? I'm curious how it all happened.

I'll have to admit that I am curious as well.

*sighs*

I'm not a very good story teller.
My cranky old neighbor is the type of person not happy unless they are crying over nothing .

Oil and water. Some folks just don't click.

I would not take the deal. I would also not rely solely on federal court rulings. A good lawyer will be able to find this case easier than I can, but there is a Texas 3rd Circuit case from 2002 involving someone named Coggin flipping off an officer named Pastrano. There are some interesting points in it, including that just flipping the bird is not sufficient to provoke a breach of the peace and meet the requirements for disorderly conduct. The court also specifically noted that the gesture was losing its opprobrium at the time and was not as bad as it had been.

I think you have Texas precedent that flipping someone off is not enough for the charge and I would probably fight it. Given a concern for your CHL, I would at least try to get the DA to change it to some other charge that is not in disorderly conduct.

srothstein wrote:I would not take the deal. I would also not rely solely on federal court rulings. A good lawyer will be able to find this case easier than I can, but there is a Texas 3rd Circuit case from 2002 involving someone named Coggin flipping off an officer named Pastrano. There are some interesting points in it, including that just flipping the bird is not sufficient to provoke a breach of the peace and meet the requirements for disorderly conduct. The court also specifically noted that the gesture was losing its opprobrium at the time and was not as bad as it had been.

I think you have Texas precedent that flipping someone off is not enough for the charge and I would probably fight it. Given a concern for your CHL, I would at least try to get the DA to change it to some other charge that is not in disorderly conduct.

also, I can't believe a cop gave you a ticket for this....was it the old man's nephew?

You will be disqualified for 5 years. If you currently have a Texas CHL (LTC), you might be revoked, if this happens you will be disqualified for 7 years. I'm a big supporter of law enforcement, if someone is disrespectful to law enforcement I have zero sympathy for them, just my opinion. If you really want a Texas CHL, you should plea "not guilty" & fight the charge all the way.

Thanx for the support and advice guys. I have decided to fight it 100%. If I lose I will notify DPS via certified mail and take a Florida CHL class.

There has to be more facts to this case. Not trying to be cynical towards the OP, but there has to be more to the story to warrant an arrest and for a lawyer to recommend taking a plea deal.
Was there multiple altercations with the neighbor? Did you threaten him other than flip the bird? Is disorderly conduct the original charge or is that what you would be asking for in the plea?

In a way I'm hoping there's more details because of not, this is an insane action on behalf of the officer making the arrest, and the DA for pursuing the charges.

Texsquatch wrote:There has to be more facts to this case. Not trying to be cynical towards the OP, but there has to be more to the story to warrant an arrest and for a lawyer to recommend taking a plea deal.
Was there multiple altercations with the neighbor? Did you threaten him other than flip the bird? Is disorderly conduct the original charge or is that what you would be asking for in the plea?

In a way I'm hoping there's more details because of not, this is an insane action on behalf of the officer making the arrest, and the DA for pursuing the charges.

I don't think the OP is going to elaborate. We'll see if he relays the disposition, but I sorta doubt it. Could be wrong. I wish him luck.

I'm guessing terroristic threat reduced to disorderly conduct.

If the OP has to surrender his CHL, is he also disqualified from carrying in his car under the MPA?

16Adams wrote:I'm guessing terroristic threat reduced to disorderly conduct.

I think it's a hard sell to call flipping the bird a "terroristic threat"

Abraham wrote:If the OP has to surrender his CHL, is he also disqualified from carrying in his car under the MPA?

While he is on community supervision, he could not have firearms in is possession. When he is done with it, he can carry under the MPA as long as he can still legally own a firearm, not engaging in criminal activity other than a traffic violation and not a member of a street gang.

Hopefully it was a silent bird and not in violation of PC 22.01