TexasCHLforum.com

nedmoore wrote:I am surprised that anyone here on the forum took the time to respond to this question. Really? Open carry with a pellet gun?

What a waste of time and bandwidth.

You have a lousy, negative attitude for sure.

You know nothing about me or my circumstances, and why I or anyone else may have merit for asking a question about any kind of firearm. For all you know, it maybe a very serious set of circumstances, and it might be to satisfy the questions from, and educate a 12 year old child.

I posted these questions in the "General" discussion section, because that's what this is about. Maybe someday you'll be able to see outside yourself.

Thanks so much to the many who took time to elaborate and/or answer the questions. My 12 year old nephew is a curious fellow!!!

WildBill wrote:

Pariah3j wrote:I'm not sure using a airsoft/co2 pistol would rise to the level of deadly force. It would be more the category of less than lethal, more like a paintball marker or similar type of instrument.

Given that imho, that it doesn't rise to the level of being a firearm, I don't think you would need a permit to carry one. However I think as suggested before me, that would be ill advised and foolish due to the number of reasons that could go wrong.

It could. An air pistol could be considered a deadly weapon.

Texas Penal Code Sec. 1.07. DEFINITIONS.
17) "Deadly weapon" means:
(A) a firearm or anything manifestly designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting death or serious bodily injury; or
(B) anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.

At 400 FPS, these 177 caliber steel BBs can easily take out an eyeball. It can easily penetrate basic clothing, and be lodged deep enough to cause some problems. It can easily deter someone from coming toward you. Just hope they don't have something more powerful. If nothing else, it will inflict severe pain, which is quite often more than enough to end a bad situation.

Jusme wrote:

nedmoore wrote:I am surprised that anyone here on the forum took the time to respond to this question. Really? Open carry with a pellet gun?

What a waste of time and bandwidth.

I've always said, there are no stupid questions, only stupid mistakes. The OP asked a question for which he wanted honest answers, No one was forced to respond, and I don't think anyone was disrespectful in their replies, If the OP didn't respect the views and opinions of the forum members he could have asked others not as experienced and gotten very bad advice. I will never rebuke someone for asking questions, no matter how common sense the answer may seem to me. There is a lot of bad advice and mis-information floating around out there that can and has gotten people hurt and/or killed, If I can express my opinion and possibly stem that tide, the bandwidth is not wasted.JMHO

Thanks Jusme.

The various laws and their interpretation notwithstanding, many of today's pellet guns are crafted to mirror their powder burning namesakes. I would not carry one of those imitators around openly for fear of drawing unwanted attention from several directions and perhaps some wise guy's real bullets. I agree with what 'some' others have previously said, it ain't a real good idea. YMMV?

Yes, I do CC.

At 400 FPS, these 177 caliber steel BBs can easily take out an eyeball. It can easily penetrate basic clothing, and be lodged deep enough to cause some problems. It can easily deter someone from coming toward you. Just hope they don't have something more powerful. If nothing else, it will inflict severe pain, which is quite often more than enough to end a bad situation.

Dannyboy, please consider the following. I have about 45 years of experience with various airguns and firearms, including many pistols in the performance envelope you describe and terminal performance against a wide variety of targets. Though .177 or even .22 caliber pellets (each heavier and carrying more energy than .177 BBs) at a nominal 400 fps can "take an eye out", penetrate some clothing, etc..., the deterrence factor against a human being is simply not significant. If your target interloper is inclined to leave before you shoot them, they well may leave when you do -- or shooting them may commit them to a different course of action like STOPPING YOU. If they are not already inclined to leave, your escalation is quite likely to be met with an attack. "Severe pain" is NOT to be confused with significant injury that can stop an attack -- and the latter inflicted with an air pistol such as you describe is incredibly improbable to the point of being practically impossible. The effects produced by such an air pistol are NOT likely to end a truly bad situation, let alone be "more than enough".

What you choose to do is, of course, your business, but my recommendation would never include employing an air pistol against another person unless it was airsoft or paintball in a force-on-force exercise/game. Best of luck.

Dannyboy wrote:

WildBill wrote:

Pariah3j wrote:I'm not sure using a airsoft/co2 pistol would rise to the level of deadly force. It would be more the category of less than lethal, more like a paintball marker or similar type of instrument.

Given that imho, that it doesn't rise to the level of being a firearm, I don't think you would need a permit to carry one. However I think as suggested before me, that would be ill advised and foolish due to the number of reasons that could go wrong.

It could. An air pistol could be considered a deadly weapon.

Texas Penal Code Sec. 1.07. DEFINITIONS.
17) "Deadly weapon" means:
(A) a firearm or anything manifestly designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting death or serious bodily injury; or
(B) anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.

At 400 FPS, these 177 caliber steel BBs can easily take out an eyeball. It can easily penetrate basic clothing, and be lodged deep enough to cause some problems. It can easily deter someone from coming toward you. Just hope they don't have something more powerful. If nothing else, it will inflict severe pain, which is quite often more than enough to end a bad situation.

By definition, taking out someones eyeball is "serious bodily injury".

Dannyboy wrote: It's my understanding I can shoot someone who is trespassing with intent to steal.

Something everyone seems to have skipped over...

Aside from the wisdom of carrying a "pellet gun," there is no law saying you can shoot someone. Use of deadly force under very specific circumstances is a defense to prosecution, nothing more, nothing less. No offense intended, I would humbly suggest you read the LTC laws, then read them again and again... I've been reading them for over 15 years and I still learn something regularly.

Larry

lfinsr wrote:

Dannyboy wrote: It's my understanding I can shoot someone who is trespassing with intent to steal.

Something everyone seems to have skipped over...

Aside from the wisdom of carrying a "pellet gun," there is no law saying you can shoot someone. Use of deadly force under very specific circumstances is a defense to prosecution, nothing more, nothing less. No offense intended, I would humbly suggest you read the LTC laws, then read them again and again... I've been reading them for over 15 years and I still learn something regularly.

Larry

I agree that you can not shoot someone who is trespassing with intent to steal.
That is why I suggested the OP take an LTC class to learn the applicable laws concerning the use of deadly force.

Sorry if you were offended Dannyboy, Good luck with air guns….

Jusme wrote: I've always said, there are no stupid questions, only stupid mistakes. The OP asked a question for which he wanted honest answers, No one was forced to respond, and I don't think anyone was disrespectful in their replies, If the OP didn't respect the views and opinions of the forum members he could have asked others not as experienced and gotten very bad advice. I will never rebuke someone for asking questions, no matter how common sense the answer may seem to me. There is a lot of bad advice and mis-information floating around out there that can and has gotten people hurt and/or killed, If I can express my opinion and possibly stem that tide, the bandwidth is not wasted.JMHO

WildBill wrote:

Dannyboy wrote:

WildBill wrote:

Pariah3j wrote:I'm not sure using a airsoft/co2 pistol would rise to the level of deadly force. It would be more the category of less than lethal, more like a paintball marker or similar type of instrument.

Given that imho, that it doesn't rise to the level of being a firearm, I don't think you would need a permit to carry one. However I think as suggested before me, that would be ill advised and foolish due to the number of reasons that could go wrong.

It could. An air pistol could be considered a deadly weapon.

Texas Penal Code Sec. 1.07. DEFINITIONS.
17) "Deadly weapon" means:
(A) a firearm or anything manifestly designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting death or serious bodily injury; or
(B) anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.

At 400 FPS, these 177 caliber steel BBs can easily take out an eyeball. It can easily penetrate basic clothing, and be lodged deep enough to cause some problems. It can easily deter someone from coming toward you. Just hope they don't have something more powerful. If nothing else, it will inflict severe pain, which is quite often more than enough to end a bad situation.

By definition, taking out someones eyeball is "serious bodily injury".

WildBill I must concede to your wisdom once again. Had not considered the eyeball angle. I would still hope some common sense could be applied and something like a standard pellet pistol would fall under less than lethal, but the law as written I suspect could and would be used to make the 'deadly weapon' case.

Pariah3j wrote:

WildBill wrote:

Dannyboy wrote:

WildBill wrote:

Pariah3j wrote:I'm not sure using a airsoft/co2 pistol would rise to the level of deadly force. It would be more the category of less than lethal, more like a paintball marker or similar type of instrument.

Given that imho, that it doesn't rise to the level of being a firearm, I don't think you would need a permit to carry one. However I think as suggested before me, that would be ill advised and foolish due to the number of reasons that could go wrong.

It could. An air pistol could be considered a deadly weapon.

Texas Penal Code Sec. 1.07. DEFINITIONS.
17) "Deadly weapon" means:
(A) a firearm or anything manifestly designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting death or serious bodily injury; or
(B) anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.

At 400 FPS, these 177 caliber steel BBs can easily take out an eyeball. It can easily penetrate basic clothing, and be lodged deep enough to cause some problems. It can easily deter someone from coming toward you. Just hope they don't have something more powerful. If nothing else, it will inflict severe pain, which is quite often more than enough to end a bad situation.

By definition, taking out someones eyeball is "serious bodily injury".

WildBill I must concede to your wisdom once again. Had not considered the eyeball angle. I would still hope some common sense could be applied and something like a standard pellet pistol would fall under less than lethal, but the law as written I suspect could and would be used to make the 'deadly weapon' case.

Thank you Parian3j for the compliment.
In most cases the defendant would probably be offered a plea bargain down to a lesser assault offense.

WildBill wrote:

Dannyboy wrote:

WildBill wrote:

Pariah3j wrote:I'm not sure using a airsoft/co2 pistol would rise to the level of deadly force. It would be more the category of less than lethal, more like a paintball marker or similar type of instrument.

Given that imho, that it doesn't rise to the level of being a firearm, I don't think you would need a permit to carry one. However I think as suggested before me, that would be ill advised and foolish due to the number of reasons that could go wrong.

It could. An air pistol could be considered a deadly weapon.

Texas Penal Code Sec. 1.07. DEFINITIONS.
17) "Deadly weapon" means:
(A) a firearm or anything manifestly designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting death or serious bodily injury; or
(B) anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.

At 400 FPS, these 177 caliber steel BBs can easily take out an eyeball. It can easily penetrate basic clothing, and be lodged deep enough to cause some problems. It can easily deter someone from coming toward you. Just hope they don't have something more powerful. If nothing else, it will inflict severe pain, which is quite often more than enough to end a bad situation.

By definition, taking out someones eyeball is "serious bodily injury".

Just to play devil's advocate, established non-lethal devices (tasers, bean bag rounds, batons, OC, etc.) are also capable of inflicting serious bodily injury and death.

jkurtz wrote:

WildBill wrote:

Dannyboy wrote:

WildBill wrote:

Pariah3j wrote:I'm not sure using a airsoft/co2 pistol would rise to the level of deadly force. It would be more the category of less than lethal, more like a paintball marker or similar type of instrument.

Given that imho, that it doesn't rise to the level of being a firearm, I don't think you would need a permit to carry one. However I think as suggested before me, that would be ill advised and foolish due to the number of reasons that could go wrong.

It could. An air pistol could be considered a deadly weapon.

Texas Penal Code Sec. 1.07. DEFINITIONS.
17) "Deadly weapon" means:
(A) a firearm or anything manifestly designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting death or serious bodily injury; or
(B) anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.

At 400 FPS, these 177 caliber steel BBs can easily take out an eyeball. It can easily penetrate basic clothing, and be lodged deep enough to cause some problems. It can easily deter someone from coming toward you. Just hope they don't have something more powerful. If nothing else, it will inflict severe pain, which is quite often more than enough to end a bad situation.

By definition, taking out someones eyeball is "serious bodily injury".

Just to play devil's advocate, established non-lethal devices (tasers, bean bag rounds, batons, OC, etc.) are also capable of inflicting serious bodily injury and death.

Of course they are capable and a person using them to assault another person could be charged with aggravated assault.

I took time to look around online. There are actually quite a few stories about people being killed by air gun. Also, now there is a 50 caliber air gun available, which is quite popular in deer hunting.

http://www.topairgun.com/50-cal-air-rifles

Also, there are many stories out there about burglars, and potential assaults being neutralized with the use of powerful air guns.

I don't plan on counting on one to defend my home, or the people and things that make life meaningful. But don't underestimate what an air gun can do. This isn't the 60s and 70s Daisy and Crossman days anymore. Companies are making air guns that will easily bring down a deer.