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Re: Suspect in custody after good Samaritan is shot dead outside Arlington Walgreens
Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 7:32 am
by Mike S
mojo84 wrote:While his tactics were lacking and ill advised, I respect the guy for being willing to risk himself for another. It's always easy to second guess from behind a keyboard. He paid the ultimate price for his mistakes and there is no sense in piling on and berating the guy.
Well stated, Sir.
Re: Suspect in custody after good Samaritan is shot dead outside Arlington Walgreens
Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 8:06 am
by Bayoutalker
If he was supposed to be at Ft. Hood that should add another charge of AWOL to his list.
Re: Suspect in custody after good Samaritan is shot dead outside Arlington Walgreens
Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 8:12 am
by LucasMcCain
That's less than 3 miles from my house. I often drive by that Walgreens on my way to work. It's a decent neighborhood, just you're average suburban residential area. Right near a school and a couple churches.
Takeaway lessons:
1. You don't have to be in the ghetto for this type of thing to happen. Always be prepared.
2. If you draw your weapon, be mentally prepared to use it.
3. Have your weapon on you whenever you legally can.
4. Don't try to do the police's job for them. Be a good witness.
It's really sad that this guy was trying to help and ended up another victim. I feel for his wife especially. He was trying to help someone who was in trouble, but he just didn't succeed. It is easy to make judgments after the fact, and much harder to make good decisions in the heat of the moment when seconds matter and your adrenaline is pumping. Still, it is an important exercise to analyze incidents like this. Should one of us find ourselves in a similar situation, having thought through it may help us to make better decisions. Just to be clear, though, I am in no way trying to tear down that man. He was acting heroically to try to help a stranger.
Re: Suspect in custody after good Samaritan is shot dead outside Arlington Walgreens
Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 8:44 am
by Mike S
I'm wondering if the shooter (Army private from Ft Hood) was in uniform. If so, Antell (the Good Samaritan) may have showed some restraint, or subconsciously hesitated to shoot another service member, as he himself was a Marine Corp veteran.
Re: Suspect in custody after good Samaritan is shot dead outside Arlington Walgreens
Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 9:04 am
by mojo84
Bitter Clinger posted this in another thread. I thought it fit here as well.
THE MAN IN THE ARENA by Teddy Roosevelt
Excerpt from the speech "Citizenship In A Republic" delivered at the Sorbonne, in Paris, France on 23 April, 1910
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Re: Suspect in custody after good Samaritan is shot dead outside Arlington Walgreens
Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 9:48 am
by Solaris
Let me add some sarcastic speculation.
Shooter will claim self-defense. Why? Well what would YOU do if a stranger pointed a gun at you in while you were in your car trying to leave Walgreens? You would shoot him, and carjacking is justified use of deadly force. The deceased was not a "good samaritan" but a carjacker. But shooter had just shot his wife you say? Did he? He shot the ground and hit her ankle. Maybe it was a ricochet. Either way, those were NDs, he did not mean to harm her, hence no shots to the chest.
Now what happens in typical DV situations? Yes the victim spouse takes the side of the aggressor spouse. So expect the wife to support the husband and not press charges. After all, he is in military, and she gets a host of benefits as a result. Don't want to cut those off.
Now do I believe any of this? Of course not. Do I believe there is a defense lawyer who will argue it? Yes. Do I believe there is a jury who will buy it? Yes.
Re: Suspect in custody after good Samaritan is shot dead outside Arlington Walgreens
Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 10:12 am
by Mavs00
If it's worth pulling your weapon, it's worth pulling the trigger (at least in that situation). No citizens arrest stuff. I'm originally from Albuquerque (moved to TX about a year ago). They had a similar (slightly) situation there recently where a BG robbed someone at an ATM, and them, while the BG was retreating, the guy that got robbed pursued the BG to his car in order to effect a "citizen's arrest". The BG shot him dead.
For me, the moral of the story is: An LTC is not a peace officer designation. We have NO business attempting to arrest anyone. If you feel threatened enough to draw your weapon, you better feel threatened enough to use it (and answer for it later).
Condolences to the victim and his family.
Re: Suspect in custody after good Samaritan is shot dead outside Arlington Walgreens
Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 10:23 am
by locke_n_load
mojo84 wrote:Bitter Clinger posted this in another thread. I thought I fit here as well.
THE MAN IN THE ARENA by Teddy Roosevelt
Excerpt from the speech "Citizenship In A Republic" delivered at the Sorbonne, in Paris, France on 23 April, 1910
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Excellent quote. Thank you Mojo.
Not gonna armchair quarterback this one, especially with the murky details I can see. Guy died as a hero, jumping in to help someone in need. That's all I need to know.
Re: Suspect in custody after good Samaritan is shot dead outside Arlington Walgreens
Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 2:37 pm
by Solaris
Solaris wrote:suthdj wrote:Solaris wrote:Another good guy who thinks an LTC is a Peace Officer License.
And his wife got to watch him die to protect nobody.
So sad.
Where does it say he had an LTC?
As reported by TV news.
And now the Dallas Morning News:
Antell, who had a concealed-carry permit, had grabbed a gun from his car and pointed it at Bradden’s car, said Arlington police spokesman Christopher Cook. Witnesses told police the gunman shot Antell in the head.
http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2016/05 ... eens.html/
Re: Suspect in custody after good Samaritan is shot dead outside Arlington Walgreens
Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 3:15 pm
by mojo84
I don't think his LTC status matters in this instance.
Re: Suspect in custody after good Samaritan is shot dead outside Arlington Walgreens
Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 3:23 pm
by Pawpaw
As much as I applaud the Good Samaritan's willingness to help others, I believe the following shows that he should not have intervened...
Bradden ran to his truck after shooting at his wife’s feet, according to the arrest warrant. He told Army supervisors that a man ran up to him and told him to drop his gun.
The BG broke off the attack and ran to his truck. At this point, the wife was in no further danger. The attack was over. He should have just gotten the license number and been a good witness.
RIP Mr. Antell. Your heart was in the right place.
Re: Suspect in custody after good Samaritan is shot dead outside Arlington Walgreens
Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 9:03 pm
by theHunter
Unfortunately, I don't think I agree with the pacifists of the group who would duck and run. I believe if I were in this situation I would not only worry about the harm he just did but also the harm by the perpetrator leaving the scene and killing someone either in a chase or spree killing. No one knows the mind of a person at the time of the incident and the Good Samaritan may have feared he would hurt others. I do believe there are lessons to be learned, either you are in the fight or you are out of it and if you are in it you better be willing to pull the trigger first.
I know I will get blow back but I grew up in a rural area of the state in a LEO family and knew that help would be a long wait, so maybe I see things a little different than most, I would have stopped him if I could have done so without endangering innocents.
I also remember a Good Samaritan deer hunter on Hwy 67 a long time ago that shot and killed a man who had just shot a Texas DPS trooper, this man choose to remain anonymous for a long time but has since been identified and has been considered a hero by the DPS and even given a commerative pistol as a token of their appreciation. This appreciation was not only for avenging the death of a DPS Trooper but also from preventing this person from going on to harm or kill others. He stopped a bad guy that day.
http://www.odmp.org/officer/8242-patrol ... arles-long
More people need to take action and less people will consider doing harm to others. There is not enough police to be everywhere and if the bad guys think they can get away with it, then they will continue to do things like this, but if this or any other bad guy thought or knew that several other people in that Walgreens had a weapon and would use it (not back down) then he might not of even been there in the first place.
Let the bashing begin.
Re: Suspect in custody after good Samaritan is shot dead outside Arlington Walgreens
Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 5:49 am
by Excaliber
theHunter wrote:Unfortunately, I don't think I agree with the pacifists of the group who would duck and run. I believe if I were in this situation I would not only worry about the harm he just did but also the harm by the perpetrator leaving the scene and killing someone either in a chase or spree killing. No one knows the mind of a person at the time of the incident and the Good Samaritan may have feared he would hurt others. I do believe there are lessons to be learned, either you are in the fight or you are out of it and if you are in it you better be willing to pull the trigger first.
I know I will get blow back but I grew up in a rural area of the state in a LEO family and knew that help would be a long wait, so maybe I see things a little different than most, I would have stopped him if I could have done so without endangering innocents.
I also remember a Good Samaritan deer hunter on Hwy 67 a long time ago that shot and killed a man who had just shot a Texas DPS trooper, this man choose to remain anonymous for a long time but has since been identified and has been considered a hero by the DPS and even given a commerative pistol as a token of their appreciation. This appreciation was not only for avenging the death of a DPS Trooper but also from preventing this person from going on to harm or kill others. He stopped a bad guy that day.
http://www.odmp.org/officer/8242-patrol ... arles-long
More people need to take action and less people will consider doing harm to others. There is not enough police to be everywhere and if the bad guys think they can get away with it, then they will continue to do things like this, but if this or any other bad guy thought or knew that several other people in that Walgreens had a weapon and would use it (not back down) then he might not of even been there in the first place.
Just my thoughts, let the bashing begin.
No bashing here, just some thoughts. I agree that a criminal's knowledge that he will very likely be strongly and competently opposed is a powerful deterrent to criminal activity.
However, I don't see anything in the reports we have that the gentleman who died backed down - he simply used bad tactics and got way too close to someone he knew was an armed violent criminal and put his gun within that person's reach. In yet another confirmation that action is faster than reaction, and his weapon was slapped away as the BG brought his up to fire.
I don't see anything that says the victim was unwilling to use his gun. I think his tactics left him in a situation where he was unable to do so in time.
From my background as both an LEO who has investigated shootings by citizens and now a citizen myself with the same level of authority as my grandmother, there is most certainly validity to a risk / benefit analysis of whether or not to intervene after a crime has been committed and a criminal is in flight. The immediate and future risks are both very high, and the chances that the criminal will be caught and prosecuted if no further action is taken at the moment are also very high.
My own analysis is that in that situation, the better part of judgment is to pull out your cellphone, take a picture of the fleeing vehicle, and provide it to the responding LEO's. The criminal will still get taken off the streets and the risk to the GG and his family is very low.
The 'what if" factor of 'what if he shoots someone else or crashes into someone during flight" is just that - what if. There is no certainty that will or will not happen, and that consideration shouldn't enter into decision making at the time.