TexasCHLforum.com

Scott in Houston wrote:

rotor wrote:Interesting in that they only posted 30.07 as most hospitals post 30.06 too. In my opinion you are legal with your sub-2000. What case did you eventually buy for it? I am using a UTG homeland security 25".

I have a computer backpack that holds both my MacBook and my Sub 2000.
It is a typical laptop backpack, so it nobody would ever think there's a rifle in there. I love that!
The day I was at this hospital with my rifle, a workplace shooting happened 2 miles away.
I felt like such a sitting duck when at hospitals. Not anymore.

I don't have a case specifically for the Sub 2000 yet. When I go to the range, it fits in my range bag (from Midway I believe).

I'll google your bag. Curious how that works for you.

Got it at Amazon for about $25. It is a little big but it has great velcro adjustable tiedowns inside that holds everything securely and a separate zippered compartment for whatever. You can not tell there is a rifle inside and there are no obvious magazine pouches visible like on some bags. Room to carry more too. Has a shoulder strap too.

Very cool. Ordering now!

TangoX-ray wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:I can CC a long gun past a 30.06/07 sign????

OC or CC. You are not carrying a long gun under the authority of your LTC. 06/07 apply to only handguns carried by only LTC holders.

This.

The wisdom of doing so is up to the situation and the individual, but it is totally legal.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

TangoX-ray wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:I can CC a long gun past a 30.06/07 sign????

OC or CC. You are not carrying a long gun under the authority of your LTC. 06/07 apply to only handguns carried by only LTC holders.

This.

The wisdom of doing so is up to the situation and the individual, but it is totally legal.

How did I miss this until now?

Just got back from morning S...n Hospital appointment myself...go there about weekly

I carry the sub2k about weekly, sometimes more often to hospitals in either

Caselogic (Sub2k in the zippered pocket)
Case Logic VNM-217 17-Inch Laptop Messenger Bag (Black)
Sold by: Amazon.com LLC
$29.00
Fits Devices (l x w x h): 16.1 x 1.7 x 12.2 in (near perfect fit)
http://www.amazon.com/Case-Logic-VNM-21 ... ge_o06_s00

or

Samsonite
Samsonite Classic Two Gusset 17" Toploader (Black)
Sold by: Amazon.com LLC
$35.61
http://www.amazon.com/Samsonite-Classic ... ge_o06_s01

Both have shoulder strap that's pretty comfortable as well as "handles"

Sub2k fits perfectly in either with room for pad, pens, 10" tablet computer, file folders, notepad, papers, 30 round magazine, spare 17 round mags ...2 pepper sprays, two 5" folding knives

Samsonite is a bit better quality, but I carry the Caselogic more often, just because my other junk is in it already/Dr.s papers etc.

Okay guys. I really hate to rain on this parade, but I feel compelled to do so.

You are absolutely correct that 30.06 and 30.07 do not apply to long guns. I agree with you that a picture of a handgun with a slash through it means no handguns, not no weapons period. However, the sign pictured also says "No Weapons" at the top. I have had this conversation several times, and the answer arrived at by people that know a lot more about the law than I do has always been that "No Weapons" carries force of law with regards to long guns per 30.05. I can copy/paste the answer from a firearms attorney if someone doesn't want to take my word for it. I don't think you would be charged with anything regarding the fact that it's a hospital, as I believe the hospital restrictions in 46.035 only apply to handguns in a posted hospital. The 30.05 violation would be a class A misdemeanor. I know this isn't the answer any of us want, but I feel I would be remiss if I didn't mention this. Hope this helps you to make informed decisions regarding carry.

Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another, including residential land, agricultural land, a recreational vehicle park, a building, or an aircraft or other vehicle, without effective consent and the person:
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.
(b) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body.
(2) "Notice" means:
(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;
(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;

(d) An offense under this section is:
(1) a Class B misdemeanor, except as provided by Subdivisions (2) and (3);
(2) a Class C misdemeanor, except as provided by Subdivision (3), if the offense is committed:
(A) on agricultural land and within 100 feet of the boundary of the land; or
(B) on residential land and within 100 feet of a protected freshwater area; and
(3) a Class A misdemeanor if:
(A) the offense is committed:
(i) in a habitation or a shelter center;
(ii) on a Superfund site; or
(iii) on or in a critical infrastructure facility; or
(B) the person carries a deadly weapon during the commission of the offense.

RoyGBiv wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

TangoX-ray wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:I can CC a long gun past a 30.06/07 sign????

OC or CC. You are not carrying a long gun under the authority of your LTC. 06/07 apply to only handguns carried by only LTC holders.

This.

The wisdom of doing so is up to the situation and the individual, but it is totally legal.

How did I miss this until now?

Look at it this way....... prior to passage of open carry and the creation of 30.07, 30.06 only applied to CHL holders, right? And the language of a compliant 30.06 sign up until 12/31/15 said:

“Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun”

After 12/31/15, the effective language became:

“Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun”

The only difference is that "concealed handgun law" was changed to "handgun licensing law"..........but it is still limited to a restriction on concealed carry where the sign is posted. 30.07 is the same, except it references open carry of a handgun as opposed to concealed carry:

Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly

Under the doctrine that a thing is by default legal unless a law exists to make it illegal, long gun carry (concealed or not) is not prohibited by 30.06 or 30.07 where posted. Given that someone has taken the trouble to post the signs, you can safely assume that you'll be ejected from the premises for openly carrying a long gun into a hospital; and you can equally assume that concealed is concealed..........as long as it remains concealed.

LucasMcCain wrote:Okay guys. I really hate to rain on this parade, but I feel compelled to do so.

You are absolutely correct that 30.06 and 30.07 do not apply to long guns. I agree with you that a picture of a handgun with a slash through it means no handguns, not no weapons period. However, the sign pictured also says "No Weapons" at the top. I have had this conversation several times, and the answer arrived at by people that know a lot more about the law than I do has always been that "No Weapons" carries force of law with regards to long guns per 30.05. I can copy/paste the answer from a firearms attorney if someone doesn't want to take my word for it. I don't think you would be charged with anything regarding the fact that it's a hospital, as I believe the hospital restrictions in 46.035 only apply to handguns in a posted hospital. The 30.05 violation would be a class A misdemeanor. I know this isn't the answer any of us want, but I feel I would be remiss if I didn't mention this. Hope this helps you to make informed decisions regarding carry.

Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS.
(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;

But they aren't posting signs that we are trespassing are they? They are posting signs that say we are liable to have to put a second mortgage on our homes if we stay more than a day or two. Entry is not forbidden in the case that we are talking about. And I am also not encouraging anyone to CC a long arm past any signs. But I am not sure that your example applies to that situation. As I read what you shared, 30.05 applies to someone entering a property uninvited and/or posted for trespass.

You nailed it.

goose wrote:

LucasMcCain wrote:Okay guys. I really hate to rain on this parade, but I feel compelled to do so.

You are absolutely correct that 30.06 and 30.07 do not apply to long guns. I agree with you that a picture of a handgun with a slash through it means no handguns, not no weapons period. However, the sign pictured also says "No Weapons" at the top. I have had this conversation several times, and the answer arrived at by people that know a lot more about the law than I do has always been that "No Weapons" carries force of law with regards to long guns per 30.05. I can copy/paste the answer from a firearms attorney if someone doesn't want to take my word for it. I don't think you would be charged with anything regarding the fact that it's a hospital, as I believe the hospital restrictions in 46.035 only apply to handguns in a posted hospital. The 30.05 violation would be a class A misdemeanor. I know this isn't the answer any of us want, but I feel I would be remiss if I didn't mention this. Hope this helps you to make informed decisions regarding carry.

Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS.
(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;

But they aren't posting signs that we are trespassing are they? They are posting signs that say we are liable to have to put a second mortgage on our homes if we stay more than a day or two. Entry is not forbidden in the case that we are talking about. And I am also not encouraging anyone to CC a long arm past any signs. But I am not sure that your example applies to that situation. As I read what you shared, 30.05 applies to someone entering a property uninvited and/or posted for trespass.

I too wondered about this. The implication being made is that a "No Weapons" sign is the same as a "No Trespassing" sign. How about the "No Smoking" part? If you smoke in the hospital are you now guilty of a class A misdemeanor?
Where are the attorneys?

goose wrote:But they aren't posting signs that we are trespassing are they? They are posting signs that say we are liable to have to put a second mortgage on our homes if we stay more than a day or two. Entry is not forbidden in the case that we are talking about. And I am also not encouraging anyone to CC a long arm past any signs. But I am not sure that your example applies to that situation. As I read what you shared, 30.05 applies to someone entering a property uninvited and/or posted for trespass.

My understanding is that by posting "No Weapons" they are communicating that people carrying weapons are not allowed to enter the property. As such, if someone carrying a weapon enters the property, they are trespassing. Think of it like a "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" sign. They are posted in places that are open to the public, but they place restrictions on who may enter. Those that do so in violation of those restrictions are trespassing. Keep in mind that I have no legal education; I'm just trying to understand the law and make sure that I conduct myself according to it as best I can. Here is the question posted by a user on another forum and the answer given by an attorney:

Question: Is it illegal to carry a concealed rifle where a proper Texas 30.06 sign is posted? Texas PC 30.06 is very specific. It's states "handgun", not rifle, or any other firearm.

Texas' definition of "Handgun" is also very specific. Texas PC 46.01(5) States, ""Handgun" means any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand." My AR-15, 16 inch barrel, style rifle definitely does not meet the handgun definition.

I would really like to know if carrying a concealed rifle in a properly posted Texas 30.06 is also illegal. I will carry my rifle in a discreet carry bag more often in public.

Answer: A 30.06 sign will not prohibit you from carrying your rifle. Be on the lookout, however, for any kind of “no guns” sign (gun buster, etc.) because these ARE sufficient to make you a criminal trespasser under 30.05 if you carry past them. Also keep in mind that if someone with apparent authority asks you to leave because of your rifle, you must do so or you will become a trespasser.

Thank you for your question.

LucasMcCain wrote:

goose wrote:But they aren't posting signs that we are trespassing are they? They are posting signs that say we are liable to have to put a second mortgage on our homes if we stay more than a day or two. Entry is not forbidden in the case that we are talking about. And I am also not encouraging anyone to CC a long arm past any signs. But I am not sure that your example applies to that situation. As I read what you shared, 30.05 applies to someone entering a property uninvited and/or posted for trespass.

My understanding is that by posting "No Weapons" they are communicating that people carrying weapons are not allowed to enter the property. As such, if someone carrying a weapon enters the property, they are trespassing. Think of it like a "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" sign. They are posted in places that are open to the public, but they place restrictions on who may enter. Those that do so in violation of those restrictions are trespassing. Keep in mind that I have no legal education; I'm just trying to understand the law and make sure that I conduct myself according to it as best I can.

But by using your definition of a "no weapons" sign validating a trespassing charge, why is a 30.06 or 30.07 sign required by law in Texas? Just put up a big (or small) gun with a red circle and slash through it. Even carrying a specific handgun past a 30.06 sign is only a class C. You just made it a class A by invoking 30.05 the way that you did. Does 30.05 and your definition trump 30.06 and its penalties?

goose wrote:But by using your definition of a "no weapons" sign validating a trespassing charge, why is a 30.06 or 30.07 sign required by law in Texas? Just put up a big (or small) gun with a red circle and slash through it. Even carrying a specific handgun past a 30.06 sign is only a class C. You just made it a class A by invoking 30.05 the way that you did. Does 30.05 and your definition trump 30.06 and its penalties?

No, because they make a very specific exception for handgun licensees. I didn't quote the whole law, just the parts I thought were relevant to the discussion. Here is the section that exempts licensed carry and a link to the whole section.

(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and
(2) the person was carrying:
(A) a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a handgun; and
(B) a handgun:
(i) in a concealed manner; or
(ii) in a shoulder or belt holster.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... .htm#30.05

LucasMcCain wrote: Also keep in mind that if someone with apparent authority asks you to leave because of your rifle, you must do so or you will become a trespasser.

This I would agree with, but while CC-ing as the thread describes no one should be asking. And no one should be refusing to leave when asked. But refusing to leave when asked is a separate situation from what we were discussing, I think.

LucasMcCain wrote:

goose wrote:But by using your definition of a "no weapons" sign validating a trespassing charge, why is a 30.06 or 30.07 sign required by law in Texas? Just put up a big (or small) gun with a red circle and slash through it. Even carrying a specific handgun past a 30.06 sign is only a class C. You just made it a class A by invoking 30.05 the way that you did. Does 30.05 and your definition trump 30.06 and its penalties?

No, because they make a very specific exception for handgun licensees. I didn't quote the whole law, just the parts I thought were relevant to the discussion. Here is the section that exempts licensed carry and a link to the whole section.

(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and
(2) the person was carrying:
(A) a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a handgun; and
(B) a handgun:
(i) in a concealed manner; or
(ii) in a shoulder or belt holster.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... .htm#30.05

What portion statute makes a person carrying past a 30.06 sign with a concealed long gun a criminal trespasser under 30.05? It may well be there but I have not read it that way. Where is a "gun buster" sign defined as notice? Notice is described in a manner to keep people out. I do not see it defined as to how to conditionally keep you out based on things on your person. None of the section '(2) "Notice" means:' parts A-E read that way to me. They describe signage to keep everybody out, IMO.

(I think I was redundant in there.)