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Of course you begin a written chain of custody with that handoff since you disarmed him/touched it/took possesion of the firearm right? Would this be any different than if legal porescription drugs were taken off of him? personal property, such as an expensive watch?

grandpatim wrote:In the service where I work we give the weapon to the police or sheriff deputies on scene. If none are there we place it in the lock box where we keep our narcotics until we can give it to the LEO's.

BrassMonkey wrote:What statute gave them the right to perform a search without PC or a warrant?

BadCo45ACP wrote:A friend w/ a CHL was in an acident last year. He was transported while unconscious, to the hospital. The HPD officer on the scene took possesion of his handgun. My friend had to file some kind of paper work to get it back. WHen it was returrned, all except one round of the ammo was gone. When he asked what happened to the rest he was told that they had done ballstic tests, and since the ammo was fragible they had a hard time getting a good round to look at.

Less than that...The "ballistics test" to me is a bunch of bunk! There is absolutely no probably cause to conduct this test! Period...

Somebody has assumed that any gun someone finds has been used in a crime...

But until investigators are told this is not a free lunch (probably cause) situation, this type of intrusion into people privacy will continue...

I have to agree with Stevie. The department probably has a written policy that all impounded firearms will be tested. This is going to be based on the policy that allows an inventory search of all cars that are impounded. But the logic is flawed and the first time someone fights the test in court they will lose.

The policy for inventorying cars is to protect from false claims of lost valuables. It just won't hold up for the test firing, IMO.

And on the calls where I have had to take a weapon from someone (accidents and the like), we just put it in the property room as personal property. The person comes by with ID to prove it is the person we took it from, and we release it back to him. I don't remember ever even running the serial number on any of them or any paperwork proving it was legally owned.

srothstein wrote:I have to agree with Stevie. The department probably has a written policy that all impounded firearms will be tested. This is going to be based on the policy that allows an inventory search of all cars that are impounded. But the logic is flawed and the first time someone fights the test in court they will lose.

The policy for inventorying cars is to protect from false claims of lost valuables. It just won't hold up for the test firing, IMO.

And on the calls where I have had to take a weapon from someone (accidents and the like), we just put it in the property room as personal property. The person comes by with ID to prove it is the person we took it from, and we release it back to him. I don't remember ever even running the serial number on any of them or any paperwork proving it was legally owned.

Harris County Sheriff's Office has such a policy. I had to help a man get his pistol back after a post-accident trip to the hospital in an ambulance. The SO said it had to be tested and since it wasn't involved in a crime, it was a low priority item that wouldn't be returned for 6 to 9 months! A few calls took care of it, but I was more than a little surprised.

Chas.

That's pretty much what I said. As far as I can tell, a ballistics test is a search. Where is the PC or warrant?

stevie_d_64 wrote:

BrassMonkey wrote:What statute gave them the right to perform a search without PC or a warrant?

BadCo45ACP wrote:A friend w/ a CHL was in an acident last year. He was transported while unconscious, to the hospital. The HPD officer on the scene took possesion of his handgun. My friend had to file some kind of paper work to get it back. WHen it was returrned, all except one round of the ammo was gone. When he asked what happened to the rest he was told that they had done ballstic tests, and since the ammo was fragible they had a hard time getting a good round to look at.

Less than that...The "ballistics test" to me is a bunch of bunk! There is absolutely no probably cause to conduct this test! Period...

Somebody has assumed that any gun someone finds has been used in a crime...

But until investigators are told this is not a free lunch (probably cause) situation, this type of intrusion into people privacy will continue...

BrassMonkey wrote:Of course you begin a written chain of custody with that handoff since you disarmed him/touched it/took possesion of the firearm right? Would this be any different than if legal porescription drugs were taken off of him? personal property, such as an expensive watch?

grandpatim wrote:In the service where I work we give the weapon to the police or sheriff deputies on scene. If none are there we place it in the lock box where we keep our narcotics until we can give it to the LEO's.

We document it in our run report and we write up an incident report where we found the weapon, where we put it and who we finally gave it to. Personal possesions are put on a form that we use specifically for that purpose. If money is in a wallet we give it to the hospital personel and count it together. We don't ussually have time on scene to document because if the patient is bad enough not to keep his wallet, watch, etc. then we don't need to be dilly dallying on scene. Weapons though always get given to LEO's on scene or placed in the lock box no matter what condition the patient is in.

Kewlness :-)

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

srothstein wrote:I have to agree with Stevie. The department probably has a written policy that all impounded firearms will be tested. This is going to be based on the policy that allows an inventory search of all cars that are impounded. But the logic is flawed and the first time someone fights the test in court they will lose.

The policy for inventorying cars is to protect from false claims of lost valuables. It just won't hold up for the test firing, IMO.

And on the calls where I have had to take a weapon from someone (accidents and the like), we just put it in the property room as personal property. The person comes by with ID to prove it is the person we took it from, and we release it back to him. I don't remember ever even running the serial number on any of them or any paperwork proving it was legally owned.

Harris County Sheriff's Office has such a policy. I had to help a man get his pistol back after a post-accident trip to the hospital in an ambulance. The SO said it had to be tested and since it wasn't involved in a crime, it was a low priority item that wouldn't be returned for 6 to 9 months! A few calls took care of it, but I was more than a little surprised.

Chas.

Isn't it comforting to know these intrusive policies are having such a positive effect on reducing crime in Harris County.

seamusTX wrote:You can't commit a crime while unconscious.

- Jim

I dont know about that. There was this one time in Tijuana with a case of jello and 10w30 motor oil...

nevermind...

BadCo45ACP wrote:A friend w/ a CHL was in an acident last year. He was transported while unconscious, to the hospital. The HPD officer on the scene took possesion of his handgun. My friend had to file some kind of paper work to get it back. WHen it was returrned, all except one round of the ammo was gone. When he asked what happened to the rest he was told that they had done ballstic tests, and since the ammo was fragible they had a hard time getting a good round to look at.

That seems a little fishy. Whey would they do ballistics testing on the gun unless they had some sort of cause to do so? I hardly think being in an accident is reason to run ballistics testing on a gun that had no association with a crime, especially one owned by a CHLer.

EDIT: and then I read further down and find that everyone already made this point. Nothing to see here, move along...

NcongruNt wrote: That seems a little fishy. Whey would they do ballistics testing on the gun unless they had some sort of cause to do so? I hardly think being in an accident is reason to run ballistics testing on a gun that had no association with a crime, especially one owned by a CHLer.......

I agree. He considered filing suit and may yet, but the expenses of the accident, and the several reconstructive surgeries hes gone through has given it a low priority.

seamusTX wrote:

Seburiel wrote:It makes me wonder about the legal ramification if, during the accident, you lose conciousness, or become unresponsive - would it, at that point, be illegal (given the implied consent to treat) to be carried into the hospital with your firearm?

You can't commit a crime while unconscious.

- Jim

That's how I know it. The act has to be voluntary and unconsciousness is not voluntary. Well, I could argue some circumstances might have taken place through voluntary action to begin with...

Hoppes

Hoppes wrote:The act has to be voluntary and unconsciousness is not voluntary. Well, I could argue some circumstances might have taken place through voluntary action to begin with...

Yeah, someone who is passed out drunk in public is committing public intoxication; but getting drunk and going out in public are the crime.

Being in a car crash or having an insulin reaction can't create guilt.

- Jim

I've posted the policy of my employer before. The jist is that IF a firearm is discovered it will be placed in a pistol case and security tagged (both carried on our ambulances) and then given to our local PD. That is an overview of our OFFICIAL policy.

I will say this, my scenario

I ride motorcycles with Star Touring (a family oriented motorcycle group)

On one ride our Captain hit a oil slick in a turn and went down (slid into the rear tire of a truck) it rang his bell really good (he had full gear on thank God) and he was carrying

Before the ambulance/police arrived his carry gun "disappeared"

I now know it was illegal for the gun to be taken by non-CHL licensed people, but it would have been better than having him roll up into a hospital with it in his pocket

Thats one of those really slippery slope "gray" areas that was discussed in class (now that I have completed the CHL course and am sending in the papers, once I have my CHL I would have had 2 pistols on me that day)

I would think though if you were unconscious and medical people were working on you and discovered your pistol, they would probably secure it and deliver it to the hospital LEO on site with no problems incurred