TexasCHLforum.com

imkopaka wrote:Not to revive a dead thread, but I got my notice in the mail a few weeks ago. After doing some research, I have elected not to do the survey. The survey itself is invasive and unconstitutional, and a Supreme Court ruling from the 1890's (which has not been overturned) specifically forbids this sort of government demand for information. I have been informed by others who have chosen not to participate that I can expect home visits from census bureau agents who will harass me until I comply or they give up. So when they come I will inform them of my decision not to participate, instruct them to leave my property, and remind them that failure to immediately do so is a violation of Texas Penal Code 30.05 - criminal trespass (if I am understanding it correctly it would be a class B misdemeanor in this case). If they are not gone in 30 seconds, I will call the police. I have heard of them messing with people's internet security, sneaking around to the backyard and looking in windows, and other forms of stalking. I do not intend to play around with them.

I have to hope that they aren't dumb enough to pull those types of stunts in Texas. They might find out the hard way that yes, the occupant of this home does in fact own a firearm.

You can't use deadly force to terminate a criminal trespass. You can use force in certain circumstances, but you'd better be able to justify why you didn't just wait for police (could invite a civil suit, too). Now, one step across the threshold without my permission and it's another story...

For the time being I will threaten with legal action, I will visibly carry (in a non-threatening manner) the largest, scariest firearm I can reach without waking up the baby, and I will assert that regardless of the supposed consequences to me I will not participate.

'Merica

imkopaka wrote:Not to revive a dead thread, but I got my notice in the mail a few weeks ago. After doing some research, I have elected not to do the survey. The survey itself is invasive and unconstitutional, and a Supreme Court ruling from the 1890's (which has not been overturned) specifically forbids this sort of government demand for information. I have been informed by others who have chosen not to participate that I can expect home visits from census bureau agents who will harass me until I comply or they give up. So when they come I will inform them of my decision not to participate, instruct them to leave my property, and remind them that failure to immediately do so is a violation of Texas Penal Code 30.05 - criminal trespass (if I am understanding it correctly it would be a class B misdemeanor in this case). If they are not gone in 30 seconds, I will call the police. I have heard of them messing with people's internet security, sneaking around to the backyard and looking in windows, and other forms of stalking. I do not intend to play around with them.

I'll be interested to hear how it turns out for you.

I, for one, will be surprised if you actually get visitors at the door for failing to respond by internet or telephone. I got a first notice and a day after I responded to the online survey I received a second notice in the mail. Of course, the notices stopped after the survey was submitted.

I can vouch they actually show up at the door. They did it to me last go-round.

Here is some info on the survey. https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys ... eference_0

imkopaka wrote:Not to revive a dead thread, but I got my notice in the mail a few weeks ago. After doing some research, I have elected not to do the survey. The survey itself is invasive and unconstitutional, and a Supreme Court ruling from the 1890's (which has not been overturned) specifically forbids this sort of government demand for information. I have been informed by others who have chosen not to participate that I can expect home visits from census bureau agents who will harass me until I comply or they give up. So when they come I will inform them of my decision not to participate, instruct them to leave my property, and remind them that failure to immediately do so is a violation of Texas Penal Code 30.05 - criminal trespass (if I am understanding it correctly it would be a class B misdemeanor in this case). If they are not gone in 30 seconds, I will call the police. I have heard of them messing with people's internet security, sneaking around to the backyard and looking in windows, and other forms of stalking. I do not intend to play around with them.

My dogs would take a very dim view of anybody sneaking around in their backyard!

mojo84 wrote:Here is some info on the survey. https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys ... eference_0

So after reading through the applicable sections of the law provided on that website, it appears to me that the maximum penalty for refusing to fill out all of the survey is a $100 fine. Providing false answers can lead to a $500 fine. I'm not real knowledgeable on legal stuff, but that's how it read to me. I did find it interesting that before 1976 you could be jailed for up to 60 days for not filling it out.

imkopaka wrote:You can't use deadly force to terminate a criminal trespass. You can use force in certain circumstances, but you'd better be able to justify why you didn't just wait for police (could invite a civil suit, too). Now, one step across the threshold without my permission and it's another story...

For the time being I will threaten with legal action, I will visibly carry (in a non-threatening manner) the largest, scariest firearm I can reach without waking up the baby, and I will assert that regardless of the supposed consequences to me I will not participate.

'Merica

In Texas it might not be a good idea to come into someone's backyard at night.

imkopaka wrote:You can't use deadly force to terminate a criminal trespass. You can use force in certain circumstances, but you'd better be able to justify why you didn't just wait for police (could invite a civil suit, too). Now, one step across the threshold without my permission and it's another story...

For the time being I will threaten with legal action, I will visibly carry (in a non-threatening manner) the largest, scariest firearm I can reach without waking up the baby, and I will assert that regardless of the supposed consequences to me I will not participate.

'Merica

I'm not saying that it is a best practice (it isn't), but I can easily imagine a home owner going into their back yard with shotgun in hand to investigate strange noises after dark. For example, VP Biden said he told his wife to fire off a couple shells as "warning shots" in this situation.

Notwithstanding the general lack of intelligence of our current VP, or the specific idiocy of that particular advice, I could see some folks reacting in a way that left no doubt in the minds of the census workers about the occupants ownership of firearms. There are obviously worse outcomes that could also result from this criminal behavior on the part of our government's employees.

The last time someone was prosecuted for failing to complete anything from the Census Bureau was in 1970, when a man was charged for filling out some answers but not others on the actual, constitutionally mandated census, and still refused to finish it when the court gave him an opportunity to do so.

This survey was not concocted until 1985, and since that time no one has been prosecuted, largely because the Bureau cannot press charges on its own, and must refer a refusal to the Dept. of Justice if they wish to impose a penalty. Failing to participate in this survey has never resulted in such action.

A good resource is this site, which has a detailed article on why you should refuse and why it is legal to do so in spite of the law that says you must participate. It also has hundreds of comments from people who have been through the refusal process and dealt with the illegal harassment and stalking tactics the Bureau takes to try and make you comply.

My family and I are prepped for a fight, be it a legal one or a physical one . I will not be a victim of government intrusion while I have the means to stand against it. I will allow them, by their actions, to set the rules of engagement...but once those rules are set, I plan to win.

imkopaka wrote:A good resource is this site, which has a detailed article on why you should refuse and why it is legal to do so in spite of the law that says you must participate. It also has hundreds of comments from people who have been through the refusal process and dealt with the illegal harassment and stalking tactics the Bureau takes to try and make you comply.

Reading through some of the comments, I saw a couple people mention putting "R" in any blanks you didn't want to answer and just putting "Head of Household" instead of your name. I would be comfortable just answering with the number of people in my household and "R" for the rest of the blanks. Any idea how this would be received? Has anyone done this?

In the digital world we live in now, they know more about us than ever before. I personally see no need to continue the Census but thats just in my little world. As I stated earlier in this thread, they did knock on my door as a last resort to get my info last go round and they were successful with their intimidating ways. I'm not comfortable giving anyone sensitive info these days so I will try to legally and respectfully decline their invitation this time.