TexasCHLforum.com

rotor wrote:There is a recent post about a Kimber problem
http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87070
with a similar topic.

I agree with the OP 100%. If it doesn't work correctly right out of the box it goes back. I just don't understand this philosophy of 500 rounds downrange to break it in. If it has problems within 20 rounds it goes back. If the manual says only use certain brands of ammo I don't buy it. ....snip....

If I pay $50 for a gun that has problems OTB, I can justify it. If I spend several hundred dollars on a gun, it darn well better be good OTB. Maybe a couple of FTE / FTF while you get used to the new gun is OK.

Telling someone that they need to shoot 500 rounds + to "break in" a gun is stupid. I'm not spending over $200 to break in a gun. A box or two for function check is fine. And telling you that you should shoot only certain ammo and specific brand names is just as stupid.

I have 2 1911's that came with a break in guide STI and Wilson neither needed it, perfect from round 1, I have had 1 1911 that was not right and was a jam o matic It lasted about 2 hrs before I was reissued another. Both will outshoot any Glock I have owned and are completely reliable. The most accurate trouble free pistols to me I have seen are the Sig 226's, I never saw a bad one, only have seen as said 1 1911 and 1 Glock 17 that just had problems, the 17 went back to Glock and still was not right. I followed this 17 for 3 owners and none could get it right, myself included. Just was not accurate functioned fine, nobody could shoot it well.

Shooting it enough to find out if it's a jamomatic is reasonable, but not blasting 500 very expensive SD rounds is not even close to reasonable.

I practice with FMJ's and when I think I ought to get fresh SD rounds for my EDC, I shoot those up, which takes place every 4/5 years. Yeah, I know lot's of folks get fresh SD rounds more often therefore shoot up their SD rounds more often.

I find this practice just fine, but not necessary for me. The SD ammo I carry (Speer Gold Dots 124 gr, standard velocity and +P's, JHP's) I've shot that were 10 years old. Every one was still reliable...and yes, I check them for set back.

I think they use a break in period to acclimate the user to the gun, not necessarily to break in the gun... Kimber is one example of a popular gun where many of their customers are 1st time 1911 owners. I've seen several "problem guns" over the years- where the gun wasn't the problem! After a few hundred rounds of learning to shoot, the "gun" mysteriously start working as intended.

flechero wrote:I think they use a break in period to acclimate the user to the gun, not necessarily to break in the gun... Kimber is one example of a popular gun where many of their customers are 1st time 1911 owners. I've seen several "problem guns" over the years- where the gun wasn't the problem! After a few hundred rounds of learning to shoot, the "gun" mysteriously start working as intended.

Seriously, aside from limp-wristing what could a shooter be doing wrong that would cause a 1911 to malfunction?

rotor wrote:

flechero wrote:I think they use a break in period to acclimate the user to the gun, not necessarily to break in the gun... Kimber is one example of a popular gun where many of their customers are 1st time 1911 owners. I've seen several "problem guns" over the years- where the gun wasn't the problem! After a few hundred rounds of learning to shoot, the "gun" mysteriously start working as intended.

Seriously, aside from limp-wristing what could a shooter be doing wrong that would cause a 1911 to malfunction?

One the most notable shooters error with a 1911 is not riding their thumb on the top of the thumb safety. They shoot and the recoil will almost always throw their thumb back up and engages the thumb safety and you want get another round fired until you figure out your error and disengage the safety again. So there are a few things a shooter can do to cause malfunctions.

You can call it break in or familiarizing yourself with the firearm, but in my little opinion you are not wise to buy a pistol, shoot 50 rounds of FMJ, load it with SD Ammo, and count on it to protect those you love. That is just me.

rotor wrote: Seriously, aside from limp-wristing what could a shooter be doing wrong that would cause a 1911 to malfunction?

THumb dragging slide, bumping the saftey, bumping the slide stop, running ammo that bumps the slide stop, etc.

I also agree with Carlson... regardless of the stated reason, my carry guns have all had better than 500 rds through them before they were ever carried. On a new platform, it's more like 1000+. I only carry ammo I can source in bulk so that I can afford shoot a couple hundred rounds of it before carrying.

The reality is that there are not a lot of problem pistols out of the box. There are way more first time gun owners with a learning curve and that's what I guess the "break in period" is geared towards. (IMO) Which does stink for the people that do get a problem gun!

When speaking of making sure a new gun functions properly before carrying it we're not really talking about a break in period, but rather a validation.

Each of the four Glocks I have owned functioned properly right out of the box. Then, after that first 50-100 rounds I cleaned and lubed/oiled them. With my Gold Cup, due to the reputation of the 1911, IIRC, I cleaned and lubed/oiled it first before it's first range trip. I've got a thread about around here somewhere. It might have had a small hiccup, but I think it functioned just fine. I do remember it out shot my G21. I don't recall having any issues with it since then either, but it might have only 300 rounds through it so far since May.

george wrote:Why is it that these "break-in" threads are always centered around 1911 pistols?

Think about it.

They really aren't, but it seems the threads geared towards a $1k pistols get much better internet traction. Go hang out at the Glock/XD/SIG/M&P forums and you'll see similar threads here and there. If I spent $1k and had a problem gun, I'd probably post about it too.

Beiruty wrote:There is no break-in of any firearm. That was and still a Myth. Treat your guns well so they can treat you well when you need them

Do you not do a barrel break-in procedure for your high-end guns, especially your rifles?

Skiprr wrote:

Beiruty wrote:There is no break-in of any firearm. That was and still a Myth. Treat your guns well so they can treat you well when you need them

Do you not do a barrel break-in procedure for your high-end guns, especially your rifles?

Simply, no. If I am paying $5700 for 338 LM SSG08-A1 from Steyr, it better be a sub-MOA from the first few shots. It should not need more than wiping down the inside of barrel and quick rub of the exterior to remove the anti-rust protective coating.

Enjoy the shooting.

The only thing I do, is to make sure that the barrel does not overheat for no valid reason. Shooting paper is not a valid reason to burn a nice match grade barrel.

Beiruty wrote:

Skiprr wrote:

Beiruty wrote:There is no break-in of any firearm. That was and still a Myth. Treat your guns well so they can treat you well when you need them

Do you not do a barrel break-in procedure for your high-end guns, especially your rifles?

Simply, no. If I am paying $5700 for 338 LM SSG08-A1 from Steyr, it better be a sub-MOA from the first few shots. It should not need more than wiping down the inside of barrel and quick rub of the exterior to remove the anti-rust protective coating.

Enjoy the shooting.

The only thing I do, is to make sure that the barrel does not overheat for no valid reason. Shooting paper is not a valid reason to burn a nice match grade barrel.

I asked because, though it may be a myth, a whole lot of folks do recommend barrel break-in. Nosler, for example, writes: "When new barrels are made, steel is unevenly stressed and microscopic burs and rough-spots are created. Hand-lapping new barrels certainly help with those burs and rough-spots, but there is nothing like putting rounds through them to relieve stress and put the final polish on the bore."

http://www.nosler.com/blog/news-and-art ... -procedure
https://kriegerbarrels.com/faq#breakin
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Seasonin ... 533158.uts
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowled ... arrel.html
https://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=130 ... Procedures

I'm sure there are many references that say to categorically ignore any barrel break-in or seasoning. But I subscribe to the Hippocratic Oath: do no harm.

I take the time to season a new chef's pan when I buy one, so I see no harm in seasoning a new barrel when I buy a new firearm. Should I be able to expect a new barrel to be flawless if I pay $6K for it? Maybe. But does it do any harm to treat it gently and follow something like Nosler's prescribed method to "fire it in" over a few dozen rounds?

In fact, may it in fact not be even more important to do that for barrels that are not manufactured to such strict standards? Handgun or rifle? Perhaps get a bit more accuracy and a bit more lifespan out of the barrel?

If it can't hurt....

Skippr, not all barrels are the same. Nosler stated on their webpage linked above that their rifles are Factory Broken-in. Then, they recommend to follow shoot/clean for strings of rds.

I am pretty sure that many shooters believe in that the first shot on squeaky clean bore would result in different POI then the following shots. This is why, before competitions, some shooter check their zero and shoot couple rd to "foul" their rifle.

Many shooters do not clean their rifles unless they notice degradation of the accuracy. Some other benchrest shooters, clean their rifle bore after few shots.

So, did I notice improvement of accuracy from Tikka after I start shooting it? YES. Is it because it is broken in, or is me that I get better shooting my rifle? Is it the muzzle/brake or the limbsaver? Finally, is it my handloads? It could be any or all the above.

How about the way rifle barrels are made? Steyr for example, have a special cold hammered barrels that they have a special twisted ridges on the outer surface of the barrels. They are cool and I am sure that they are artifacts of great barrel fabrication.

Finally, is there any reason, that at the factory, the manufacturer of the rifle do not polish and clean the inside of the barrel from any perfections?
If I look at the polygonal rifling of my HK pistols they look like a mirror.

I had a 1st gen Baby Eagle in .40 about 16 years ago. It jammed first mag and I thought it needed to break in. I never got it to make it thru 2 mags without a hiccup and it would only run smooth if you limp twisted it. Good firm 2 handed grip, jam. Hold it with finger and a thumb, fire all day long. I probably put 1k thru it and never felt I could trust the thing and got rid of it. I wish I had it back to mess with cause it was accurate as could be but I wouldn't carry it.

Since then I've gotten a couple of Walthers and they have had no issues from the 1st round even if with the trigger finger and thumb only grip method. I know of no weaker way to hold a pistol and have tried to limp wrist one but don't know exactly how to accomplish that.

I guess my point is I agree with the OP. It should go bang out of the box.