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Re: LTC individual has ND at Houston Galleria
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:28 am
by jmra
cmgee67 wrote:dlh wrote:This is what happens when (1) you carry with a round in the chamber, and (2) when you fail to properly secure your handgun.
Bad press for all of us who safely carry. The anti-gunners of course will jump on this one.
Hold on there partner. Carrying a round in the chamber is perfectly ok. There is nothing wrong with it. Today's modern handguns such as a glock cannot be fired unless the trigger is pulled. There is a metal plunger that must be depressed to allow the firing pin to go forward and fire. A modern striker fire won't go off if it's dropped from 5 feet off the ground. But It doesn't specify what kind of handgun it was. It could have been a 1911 with the safety off and cocked. It could have been a a striker fired hand gun and something got inside the trigger guard. I have had to carry my firearm in a back pack before but It was holstered in kydex and trigger completely covered and guess what? It was hot. No problem.
Here's the thing. If you don't feel comfortable carrying one in the chamber then ok don't do it. But if you think you are going to be just as fast as a guy who has one in the pipe your wrong. It's physically impossible. In a self defense situation tenths of seconds count. If you have a good holster that covers the trigger guard and good finger control then you will be fine.
Yep, having to chamber a round turns the 20' rule into a 30' rule.
Re: LTC individual has ND at Houston Galleria
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:44 am
by goose
Like others, I am going to guess that there were sharpies or ball point pens or other junk that came out with the pistol and when they hit the ground, he won the stupid lottery and all the pieces fell perfectly to depress the trigger.
I have no issue with a pistol in a backpack (provided you can keep the pistol and the backpack under your control). For me, however, I would want it in a holster secured to an interior wall or small self-contained pocket simply so that I didn't have to fish around for it. If I need it, I would want it exactly where I knew it should be.
Glad nobody was hurt. Assuming that he will get a bill (with zero discounts, full+ market value) from the Galleria to fix the bullet hole(s), he is already getting to face ramifications.
Re: LTC individual has ND at Houston Galleria
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:02 am
by treadlightly
Junk + gun= bad idea. A gun in a backpack means the backpack is the holster. If you wouldn't carry a gun in a flimsy holster that would let something pull the trigger through the cloth, or if you wouldn't stick your ballpoint down beside your gun in a regular holster, then you shouldn't do the same thing with a backpack.
Being coldly logical, I observe several things. It's possible for mishandled guns to discharge negligently, one proof being this Galleria incident.
And it happens very, very rarely.
On the whole, society appears much more careful with guns than with cars.
Federal Car Free School Zones, anyone?
Re: LTC individual has ND at Houston Galleria
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:08 am
by mayor
jmra wrote:...but you would think that someone that's gone through an LTC class would know better.
ummm... that would be a comforting thought, but just because someone gets their LTC, doesn't automagically make them intelligent.
Glad no one was injuried/killed.
Re: LTC individual has ND at Houston Galleria
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:13 am
by dlh
This may have been a semi-automatic handgun--not sure. Did they ever identify whether it was a semi-automatic or a revolver? Old-style revolvers with the firing pin on the hammer can discharge a round if they are dropped on the floor and the hammer strikes a round in the chamber. Not a problem, of course, with modern revolvers.
Re: LTC individual has ND at Houston Galleria
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:18 am
by Liberty
cmgee67 wrote:
Hold on there partner. Carrying a round in the chamber is perfectly ok. There is nothing wrong with it. Today's modern handguns such as a glock cannot be fired unless the trigger is pulled. There is a metal plunger that must be depressed to allow the firing pin to go forward and fire. A modern striker fire won't go off if it's dropped from 5 feet off the ground. But It doesn't specify what kind of handgun it was. It could have been a 1911 with the safety off and cocked. It could have been a a striker fired hand gun and something got inside the trigger guard. I have had to carry my firearm in a back pack before but It was holstered in kydex and trigger completely covered and guess what? It was hot. No problem.
We don't know what kind of gun it was, but I would bet a paycheck that it was DA striker type. Sounds like something got into the trigger guard of a striker type model. A 1911 would not be likely to fire under these described conditions because the grip safety would need to be deactivated while the trigger was pulled (pretty unlikely set of conditions).
I don't have a lot of confidence in modern guns being drop proof. Ruger and Taurus have had recalls because of this very issue. These issues don't always show up quickly after the initial release of the models. Some manufactures make very good guns but they don't deal with the volume that Taurus and Ruger do on their models. If a gun hasn't been out in the wild and doesn't have a firingpin block I wouldn't be too confident in its drop proofness
cmgee67 wrote:
Here's the thing. If you don't feel comfortable carrying one in the chamber then ok don't do it. But if you think you are going to be just as fast as a guy who has one in the pipe your wrong. It's physically impossible. In a self defense situation tenths of seconds count. If you have a good holster that covers the trigger guard and good finger control then you will be fine.
I holster all my guns unless they are properly stored or being used. I think that the value of a holster as safety equipment is often unappreciated. The range that I use doesn't allow holstered weapons at all.
Re: LTC individual has ND at Houston Galleria
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:21 am
by The Annoyed Man
I'm picturing a guy whose vanity won't allow him to wear anything besides skinny jeans and emo pants, and his little brother's shirts. "I'll just put the gun in my book bag, and then I don't need to waste money on a stupid holster instead of some really great eye shadow and black nail polish......and I can keep dressing like a 6 year old girl!"
....but I don't judge, 'cause that would be wrong.....
Re: LTC individual has ND at Houston Galleria
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:25 am
by Liberty
dlh wrote:This may have been a semi-automatic handgun--not sure. Did they ever identify whether it was a semi-automatic or a revolver? Old-style revolvers with the firing pin on the hammer can discharge a round if they are dropped on the floor and the hammer strikes a round in the chamber. Not a problem, of course, with modern revolvers.
The reason I believe this was an object in the trigger guard is because a backpack would likely cushion the drop somewhat.
Re: LTC individual has ND at Houston Galleria
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:38 am
by goose
The Annoyed Man wrote:I'm picturing a guy whose vanity won't allow him to wear anything besides skinny jeans and emo pants, and his little brother's shirts. "I'll just put the gun in my book bag, and then I don't need to waste money on a stupid holster instead of some really great eye shadow and black nail polish......and I can keep dressing like a 6 year old girl!"
....but I don't judge, 'cause that would be wrong.....
Holy Crumb!!!!! :-) That is quite the unleashing for TAM. But I did laugh out loud. Because I could see him.
Now cut that out! Last week Charles dropped a five gallon bucket of diesel fuel on the "45 vs everything else" debate. Today, you just went all poetic license on a hilarious mental picture. Big parts of the moral and logical compass of the board has gone all 'Johnny Carson' on us.
Re: LTC individual has ND at Houston Galleria
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:44 am
by The Annoyed Man
goose wrote:The Annoyed Man wrote:I'm picturing a guy whose vanity won't allow him to wear anything besides skinny jeans and emo pants, and his little brother's shirts. "I'll just put the gun in my book bag, and then I don't need to waste money on a stupid holster instead of some really great eye shadow and black nail polish......and I can keep dressing like a 6 year old girl!"
....but I don't judge, 'cause that would be wrong.....
Holy Crumb!!!!! :-) That is quite the unleashing for TAM. But I did laugh out loud. Because I could see him.
Now cut that out! Last week Charles dropped a five gallon bucket of diesel fuel on the "45 vs everything else" debate. Today, you just went all poetic license on a hilarious mental picture. Big parts of the moral and logical compass of the board has gone all 'Johnny Carson' on us.
My work here is done.
Re: LTC individual has ND at Houston Galleria
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:56 am
by Soccerdad1995
I wonder what rule of the Galleria's he violated. I'm thinking it might be the "no weapons" policy, but that doesn't make sense as they have decided to exempt LEO's and LTC's. Maybe they have a "no stupidity" rule.
Re: LTC individual has ND at Houston Galleria
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:17 am
by bayou
Questioning the safety of a round in the chamber has been discussed on this site to the point of
If you don't think its safe --don't do it, but please don't question others personal decision. Failing to secure the firearm properly was the issue.
Re: LTC individual has ND at Houston Galleria
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:27 am
by Liberty
bayou wrote:Questioning the safety of a round in the chamber has been discussed on this site to the point of
If you don't think its safe --don't do it, but please don't question others personal decision. Failing to secure the firearm properly was the issue.
Actually, I believe it does.
Most of us wouldn't consider carrying while unloaded. but carrying a handgun in a back pack is transporting it. You wouldn't ship a gun loaded or transport to the hunt lease a hunting rifle loaded. Carrying a weapon in a back pack isn't really the same as packing a concealed weapon for protection.
Re: LTC individual has ND at Houston Galleria
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:30 am
by goose
Liberty wrote:bayou wrote:Questioning the safety of a round in the chamber has been discussed on this site to the point of
If you don't think its safe --don't do it, but please don't question others personal decision. Failing to secure the firearm properly was the issue.
Actually, I believe it does.
Most of us wouldn't consider carrying while unloaded. but carrying a handgun in a back pack is transporting it. You wouldn't ship a gun loaded or transport to the hunt lease a hunting rifle loaded. Carrying a weapon in a back pack isn't really the same as packing a concealed weapon for protection.
Does that apply to purses or the many carry satchels? Or does there need to be some version of a "quick draw" built into it? Just curious where you would draw the line.
Re: LTC individual has ND at Houston Galleria
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:31 am
by Soccerdad1995
bayou wrote:Questioning the safety of a round in the chamber has been discussed on this site to the point of
If you don't think its safe --don't do it, but please don't question others personal decision. Failing to secure the firearm properly was the issue.
If you want to be super-duper safe, you would carry with no round in the chamber, no mag in the gun, and a trigger lock installed. Actually you might want to have the gun fully disassembled just to get that last little bit of safety. It seems silly to get all upset that someone else is not being "safe" when you are somewhere other than the far end of the spectrum yourself.
Kind of reminds me of a Lieutenant I served with. We snuck off to a Mc Donalds while our vehicle was in line for the wash station after a field exercise. He questioned why I had gotten a large soda since they had free refills. And I then pointed out that he had gotten a medium instead of a small, himself.
As with most things in life, we all make choices from a range of options. Your choice is your choice, and my choice is my choice. Neither is necessarily right, or wrong.