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This could have ended badly. I agree with the above. On body carry or at least not having both weapons in the same location. Bad guy was blocking both pistols while behind the counter.

Daughter should have waited to call 911 until situation was under control when he came back, she was on the phone.

I know plans go out the window as soon as it hits the fan but it appears they didn't have much of a plan.

It also appears the revolver was empty when the perp was leaving and the girl on the phone was lucky cause she was a sitting duck.

They are lucky

Looked like the one lady had a j-frame which appeared to be out by the end of the fight. The other lady's gun looked like a 380.

It looked like the BG had a shotgun when he first came in but lost it when he went outside and came back in. He also looked like he was hyped up on something. Given the way he soaked up bullets, I don't think caliber would have made a big difference unless you moved up to a shotgun or 30 caliber rifle.

The women also didn't look like they were really aiming. They were more just pointing their guns and shooting. They did seem to get some good COM hits on him nevertheless.

I think the only thing that really would have stopped him would have been a head shot.

Don’t think anyone mentioned it, but it was shown on LIVE PD tonight. They interviewed the two females.

stroo wrote:I think the only thing that really would have stopped him would have been a head shot.

A hit on the spinal cord would also drop him quickly.

Pilgrim wrote:Another observation is it seems the BG was acting like he was giving up just before he attacked the lady for her gun. Don't trust the BG when he pretends to be giving up when he really is just tricking you until he can attack.

Very, very true!

BG did not rob the store, and then break back in just to have a little chat. He was there to hurt or kill, and used deception to get close enough for a gun grab.

Paladin wrote:

stroo wrote:I think the only thing that really would have stopped him would have been a head shot.

A hit on the spinal cord would also drop him quickly.

A hundred years ago, before the age of political correctness, with experience in an area of the world where lawsuits were never an issue, Fairbairn & Sykes advocated 2 + 2 shooting. They recommended 2 to COM and then 2 to the head... when it sounds like a machinegun they said you're doing it fast enough.

All I can say, I am glad they had a gun and they survived. These are the stories that need to be highlighted right now.

puma guy wrote:Definitely calls for "triple tap", then repeat until ammo is exhausted.

With the proliferation of body armor these days it's important to put some shots on areas other than Center of Mass.

One of the lessons learned at the N.T.I. was:

"Target neutralization can be a problem for some people. I have seen people dump entire magazines into targets that were wearing a vest and failed to go for a headshot. At NTI. XIII, one target was wearing a vest and required a headshot to be neutralized. Many people kept shooting the body until they were told to take a head shot. If they had not been told, some may have used their entire ammo supply on the first target that they had seen. If the target does not go down after a few shots you need to change what you are doing. You may want to transition to a headshot." - Ron Koch

First Person Defender had a great episode where the bad guy has body armor and won't go down with COM hits.

I don't know how far down body armor covers the torso but I would think a couple of 45acp in the gut or crotch would do the trick.

cirus wrote:I don't know how far down body armor covers the torso but I would think a couple of 45acp in the gut or crotch would do the trick.

It might work. But with the Epidemic of Illicit drug use I personally would never count on it. Drugged out violent criminals may not even feel the pain until much later.

A friend that watches Live PD said the BG took 4 rounds. 4 out of what appeared to be 6 rounds fired and he was still able to pistol whip the mom and leave on his own. Also said the BG was clean, no drugs or alcohol.

Lots of things that went wrong but ultimately one thing went right. The two women were not seriously hurt and the BG is in the hospital and going to jail.

I thought the revolver looked like a .38 snubby. The automatic looked like one of those little Beretta tilt-barrel pistols. I think that would mean .22, .25, or .32, but I don't know for sure.

While I can understand (but don't agree with) a gun under the counter instead of on-body carry, I don't understand putting mouse guns there. A gun under the counter should be a real Hawg Laig. If the BG survives, his story should be, "She pulled a gun from under the counter and it kept coming and coming! The barrel looked like a sewer pipe!!!" If you do have to pull the trigger, it should make BIG holes.

troglodyte wrote:A friend that watches Live PD said the BG took 4 rounds. 4 out of what appeared to be 6 rounds fired and he was still able to pistol whip the mom and leave on his own. Also said the BG was clean, no drugs or alcohol.

Lots of things that went wrong but ultimately one thing went right. The two women were not seriously hurt and the BG is in the hospital and going to jail.

True. Good info!

Pawpaw wrote:I thought the revolver looked like a .38 snubby. The automatic looked like one of those little Beretta tilt-barrel pistols. I think that would mean .22, .25, or .32, but I don't know for sure.

I think the mother only fired five rounds, but, Colt DS revolvers are six rounds. The daughter pulled what looked like a two tone Kahr or Taurus semiauto and got off one round for sure at bad breath distance. Beretta did make a tilt barrel in .380acp just fyi.

couzin wrote:

Pawpaw wrote:I thought the revolver looked like a .38 snubby. The automatic looked like one of those little Beretta tilt-barrel pistols. I think that would mean .22, .25, or .32, but I don't know for sure.

I think the mother only fired five rounds, but, Colt DS revolvers are six rounds. The daughter pulled what looked like a two tone Kahr or Taurus semiauto and got off one round for sure at bad breath distance. Beretta did make a tilt barrel in .380acp just fyi.

You could be right. It was definitely two tone and hammer fired. She had to cock it.