CHL Scenario - What would you do?

stevie_d_64 · Post by **stevie_d_64** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:13 pm

Funny thing...

I'm not a .45ACP guy...

I'm just that good...

As for the other BG's in your senario...

I give you a line from Bill Shakespeare...

"Stand not and be amazed!"

Romeo and Juliet; Act 2, scene 4...I think...

jimlongley · Post by **jimlongley** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:56 pm

If BG is indeed cooperating and has halted, then he will be instructed to assume a position that is not easily gotten out of, depending on the space available, and once he's in it my wife will: move farther away; obtain her gun ; call 911 on the cordless phone. The call to 911, even if LEOs can't get there, is to make sure there is a report of the incident recorded.

I am not sure I would risk putting my handcuffs, or alternately, for those of you that don't have any; tie-wraps, duct tape, or baling wire, on him, because if this is merely an erronous situation (maybe he's a little drunk and think's he's home arguing with his wife, or maybe he's gone psychotic due to the stress of the impending bug-out) I would hate to wind up on the wrong end of a wrongful imprisonment charge.

Ongoing, if he shows signs of belligerancy, then he will get restrained, if he shows signs of escape, I don't think I would try real hard to stop him, but I would worry that he might move on to a more helpless victim, so at least some attempt would be made.

Considering that the law is tied up and we are having to fend for ourselves, I might even go so far at to restrain him anyway, and evacuate him with us.

Maybe questioning would reveal that he is trying to get a ride for his pregnant wife, Alzheimer's father, Parkinson's mother, Down's sister, and Spina Bifida child, under which circumstances I would have a tendency to cut a little slack and offer some form of assistance.

So many choices, so little time.

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:42 pm

GlockenHammer wrote:Pretty good. Here's what you have found out so far, taken in order of your responses:
txinvestigator wrote:]Glass can deflect bullets, so no shooting thru the glass for me. I would do as giga04 would. Draw on the man and tell him he is under arrest. (any person can arrest for a felony committed in his presence or view. The felony is a Burglary)
Smart move on the glass. It is double-pane insulated glass and strong as hell (rated for hurricanes, you know). You've got him at gunpoint and he is complying with your every command. Now what?

I would have the wife call 911 while I maintain a position of cover. I would also tell him that attempting to get up will get him pepper sprayed. I would have the wife obtain my handcuffs as a precaution. I don't believe I would attempt to cuff him unless the police took a long time to get there and he started to get antsy. (I am a former cop and know how to cuff, but I would rather I cover him than leave that to my wife)

one eyed fatman · Post by **one eyed fatman** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:01 pm

I'd just shoot him. Just because he appears to be unarmed does not mean he is. He could possibly use cover to pull a weapon. Also he can cover the distance between him and your wife in a couple seconds. Why give him that chance? He's in your home. He's already threatening someone. Remember it's kinda dark in there and this guy could easily turn into a moving target. How many of you practice shooting at moving targets in a dark room? Shooting him takes all the guess work out of what he could do next and that keeps your family safe. You've all heard the expression never give a sucker an even break. Believe it. The longer it takes you to pull the trigger the longer he has to turn the tables on you. Just my thoughts on this subject.

anygunanywhere · Post by **anygunanywhere** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:10 pm

+1 for shoot him.

gigag04 · Post by **gigag04** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:36 pm

I'm reminded of that joke about a democrat, a republican and a texan. The punchline being:

BANG
BANG

BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG

daughter: "nice grouping daddy, are those Gold Dot's?"

-nick

Bubba · Post by **Bubba** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:44 pm

360 check, then enter quickly and take BG down at gunpoint. Either he complies or dies, no run away crap. Wife can handcuff and or call somebody but BG will comply until LEO show up. BG is a felon at this point and all that implies :)

Kalrog · Post by **Kalrog** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:56 pm

Kalrog wrote:*Waiting for more info*

Still waiting more info... any updates yet?

stevie_d_64 · Post by **stevie_d_64** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:04 pm

Kalrog wrote:
Kalrog wrote:*Waiting for more info*
Still waiting more info... any updates yet?

I got this PM that said that there are two more BeeGees...

One is a woman that comes out of the bedroom hallway, .38 a blazin', because you just shot her man that was your first BG...He's BG#1, the girl is BG#3...

BG#2 is the guy that come up behind you from the backyard and scares you...

Like I said before in my first post...

Bang, I ain't got time for this...

In this case...

Bang...Bang...Bang...

"Now where did I put the box with the good stuff???"

"Oh, Esther...Go give Deputy Rivera a call hon...Tell him if he's got time can he drop by for a cup of coffee...And oh, give the coroner a call also, will ya...We gotta hurry and finish loading up..." 8)

GlockenHammer · Post by **GlockenHammer** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:00 pm

Sorry for the delayed update. Stevie_d_64 did get the PM update, but the details above are just a tad off. For the rest of you, here is what you didn't find out immediately....

BG#2 is a mean-spirited male that had slipped into the master bedroom (between your wife and her gun) unbeknownst to your wife--no good guys knew he was there (the wife was packing up baby spoons). If your wife ventures to get her gun, he's grabbing her and you have a stand off. He's got a small knife.

BG#3 is woman with a gun that was waiting out by the cars while the men secured the ride. She's armed, but not skilled. Had you gotten the drop on her, she would comply with your demands. If she had a shot at you in the back, you'd get all six (might hit you, might not).

Those that shot BG1 would be treated to a blind-side presentation of BG#3 with the gun. Maybe you'd see her approach and take her out. Maybe you'd never see it coming.

Fortunately, the kids were across the street.

There are two winning solutions as I've rigged the hidden details. Those that tossed the keys to the truck and said "get out" lived to tell the tale. BG#2 shows and exits, meets BG#3 and hightails it out of Dodge (at least until they hit evacuation traffic.)

The second winnng solution is to use your deadly force to secure a safe exit for you and your wife. BGs allow your escape (your gun was more than they bargained for in their quest for an easy ride out of town).

Those that shot the BG have to deal with a blind-side attack by a trigger-happy but untrained shooter. Play rock-paper-scissors with your friend to see if you survive this. Also, you've still got BG2 in the house. He can't get out a window because they're all boarded up. He becomes desperate. I have no idea what happens at this point.

Those that held the BG at gunpoint do not get attacked by BG3--she comes to the sound of gunfire. Similarly, BG2 hides out in the BR since he's only got the knife. As long as you don't give him a hostage, he's not much of a threat. I'm not sure what happens as time passes with BG1 at gunpoint, BG2 trapped in the MBR and BG3 in the driveway. You can make it up from there.

Stevie_d_64 hit me up pretty hard about this being pretty much a setup b/c the BGs did not act in unison. Maybe so. Still, this was the scenario that kept challenging me as I sat in evacuation traffic for 12 hours.

Like most of you, my first reaction was to stop the threat with extreme prejudice. However, getting shot in the back really irritated me off. I am definitely not one of those types that suggests complying with the BG demands and they will leave you alone. I think the gene pool needs clensing. Even so, I think that giving them the keys worked out best in this scenario. With the traffic, they're not going to stay in your vehicle long. With so many LEO working traffic, they're sure to get IDd.

I hope you enjoyed this little game and don't feel tricked or set up. I really enjoyed your responses and learned from them. As many times as I played through this in my head, I never checked six, even though I know better. I saw BG#1 and he got 110% of my attention. It was also a hard lesson for me that just because I am justified in deadly force and am capable of successfully applying it, that doesn't always solve the problem. As someone once said (Clint Smith?) "You can do everything exactly correct and still die". That's not fun, but it rings true. In this scenario, there were at least two ways out.

Keep your eyes open, your brain on, your head on a swivel, your sidearm at your side and help make Texas a better place because you were there.

Peace,
GH

Kalrog · Post by **Kalrog** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:44 am

I did enjoy it.. who is going to run the next one?

stevie_d_64 · Post by **stevie_d_64** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:53 am

GlockenHammer wrote:Sorry for the delayed update. Stevie_d_64 did get the PM update, but the details above are just a tad off. For the rest of you, here is what you didn't find out immediately....

Stevie_d_64 hit me up pretty hard about this being pretty much a setup b/c the BGs did not act in unison. Maybe so. Still, this was the scenario that kept challenging me as I sat in evacuation traffic for 12 hours.

Keep your eyes open, your brain on, your head on a swivel, your sidearm at your side and help make Texas a better place because you were there.

Don't get me wrong or take it personal...I am always intrigued and entertained by these "senarios"...

Its never a bad idea to run through a "what if" in your head to see how you'd react...Just watch the news every morning to see all the ice-house shootings etc etc...For what thats worth...

I was going from memory this last weekend when you sent that clarifying PM...When I wrote that last reply/post...

Your last sentence there sums up a good philosophy/mindset to keep honed to a fine edge at all times...

jimlongley · Post by **jimlongley** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:57 pm

My wife's gun is not in the bedroom.

one eyed fatman · Post by **one eyed fatman** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:56 pm

I didn't get a PM so apparently I did the right thing.

GlockenHammer · Post by **GlockenHammer** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:00 pm

one eyed, you shot BG1, so you get to deal with BG3 coming around to your blind side with an itchy trigger finger. Play one round of rock-paper-scissors with the next person you meet to find out if you live or die.