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Re: IL:Security Guard holding bar shooter on ground shot and killed by police by accident
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:08 pm
by philip964
https://wgntv.com/2018/11/11/multiple-w ... olice-say/
Here is another version from WGN.
The headline emphasizes that the Security Guard was armed when he was shot by police. Points out no concealed carry permit. ( don’t security guards open carry )
Also points to racial overtone.
Re: IL:Security Guard holding bar shooter on ground shot and killed by police by accident
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:09 pm
by 03Lightningrocks
philip964 wrote: Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:08 pm
Also points to racial overtone.
I actually wondered about that one.
Re: IL:Security Guard holding bar shooter on ground shot and killed by police by accident
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:02 pm
by orangetx
To me, being a black man with an LTC this is a scary thing I do think about and fear happening if I am in need to protect my person.
But I am sure the responding LEO had a 911 call from someone there about what was going on, and who to look out for.
But this isn't the 1st time the PD have come on the scene and open fired to only ask questions later. I recall that one man who ran an intruder out his house and was shot dead in his own yard.
Call it what you want, but this story just keeps adding fuel to the fire that LEO are getting real trigger happy.
Re: IL:Security Guard holding bar shooter on ground shot and killed by police by accident
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:37 pm
by 03Lightningrocks
orangetx wrote: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:02 pm
Call it what you want, but this story just keeps adding fuel to the fire that LEO are getting real trigger happy.
Especially in Chicago area.
Re: IL:Security Guard holding bar shooter on ground shot and killed by police by accident
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:20 pm
by crazy2medic
Since I have left my previous employment and I now work as an Armed Security Guard my question is 1. Was the Security Guard in a uniform? In Texas you have to be in a uniform that clearly shows you are a Security Guard, you side arm is openly carried!
2. Who called the L.E.? Security Guard or bystander? This whole thing stinks!
Re: IL:Security Guard holding bar shooter on ground shot and killed by police by accident
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:43 pm
by MaduroBU
I was taught that the only reason for a CHL to draw his or her weapon is to fire it immediately. This is one of the hundreds of bad outcomes associated with trying to be a junior LEO. They have vast advantages in backup, arms, public perception, and legal recourse and possibly also training. We have only a small pistol, maybe one backup mag, maybe the element if surprise, and the presumption that we feared for our own life or the lives of others. We cannot afford to give up ANY of those resources, and if we give any of them up, it's often a disaster for us.
Re: IL:Security Guard holding bar shooter on ground shot and killed by police by accident
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:23 pm
by Noggin
MaduroBU wrote: Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:43 pm
I was taught that the only reason for a CHL to draw his or her weapon is to fire it immediately. This is one of the hundreds of bad outcomes associated with trying to be a junior LEO. They have vast advantages in backup, arms, public perception, and legal recourse and possibly also training. We have only a small pistol, maybe one backup mag, maybe the element if surprise, and the presumption that we feared for our own life or the lives of others. We cannot afford to give up ANY of those resources, and if we give any of them up, it's often a disaster for us.
I tried to make a similar point earlier which another poster did not seem to approve of.
Re: IL:Security Guard holding bar shooter on ground shot and killed by police by accident
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:00 pm
by srothstein
RSX11 wrote: Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:03 pmIllinois has a felony murder rule - it says something like, if someone is killed during the commission of a felony, the felon can be charged with murder even if he didn't do the actual killing - is it possible it could apply to the bad guy in this case?
I do not know Illinois law but I was thinking the same thing. In Texas it definitely does apply.
Re: IL:Security Guard holding bar shooter on ground shot and killed by police by accident
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:30 pm
by Abraham
Right, I was being vaguely sarcastic...too vague...
Re: IL:Security Guard holding bar shooter on ground shot and killed by police by accident
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:09 pm
by WTR
Noggin wrote: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:23 pm
MaduroBU wrote: Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:43 pm
I was taught that the only reason for a CHL to draw his or her weapon is to fire it immediately. This is one of the hundreds of bad outcomes associated with trying to be a junior LEO. They have vast advantages in backup, arms, public perception, and legal recourse and possibly also training. We have only a small pistol, maybe one backup mag, maybe the element if surprise, and the presumption that we feared for our own life or the lives of others. We cannot afford to give up ANY of those resources, and if we give any of them up, it's often a disaster for us.
I tried to make a similar point earlier which another poster did not seem to approve of.
The security guard was paid armed security and was wearing gear and a shirt with SECURITY on it. That’s not a LTC playing junior LEO.
Re: IL:Security Guard holding bar shooter on ground shot and killed by police by accident
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:17 pm
by Oldgringo
Gator Guy wrote: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:14 am
Oldgringo wrote: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:07 am
There is always the civil suit lurking in the background.
Not for the killer. Maybe for innocent taxpayers but not for the killer.
Nope! The SG's family is going to sue the city, the shooter and everybody standing around making movies with their smartphones. Wouldn't yours?
Granted, the city may bear some of the burdens of defending the Popo.
Re: IL:Security Guard holding bar shooter on ground shot and killed by police by accident
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:48 pm
by K.Mooneyham
Well, after reading the news stories, I'm going to guess that the city is going to pay up in an out-of-court settlement that will result in one or two people losing their jobs. Terrible business all around, feel bad for the security guard and his family.
Re: IL:Security Guard holding bar shooter on ground shot and killed by police by accident
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:57 pm
by Allons
Coming up on a scene with people still around and a guy subdued with a knee in his back and a gun drawn on him would not make me pull out a gun and shoot first.
Re: IL:Security Guard holding bar shooter on ground shot and killed by police by accident
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:03 pm
by WTR
Allons wrote: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:57 pm
Coming up on a scene with people still around and a guy subdued with a knee in his back and a gun drawn on him would not make me pull out a gun and shoot first.
There are also reports that people were shouting that the deceased was Security. I think we have a tragic mistake made by an Officer who has never learned to ID your target before pulling the trigger.
Re: IL:Security Guard holding bar shooter on ground shot and killed by police by accident
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:17 am
by 03Lightningrocks
WTR wrote: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:03 pm
There are also reports that people were shouting that the deceased was Security. I think we have a tragic mistake made by an Officer who has never learned to ID your target before pulling the trigger.
I read that also and my first thought was of how people screaming "He is a security guard" may have confused the cop. Maybe the cop thought the guy on the ground was the security guard and the guy with his knee on him was about to shoot the security guard. Using a non descriptor word like "He" can cause a serious misunderstanding in a situation like that. The cop may have thought he needed to act fast to save the security guards life.