TexasCHLforum.com

llwatson wrote:Officer: "Well, all right, I guess that's big enough. Go on in"

LOL
I like his attitude!

Maybe I am missing something. Why exactly do you have to tell them you are carrying?

Cause it's best to let him know before the metal detector does...

Security at the State Fair would be Dallas PD. At least, that was my experience.

OK,
So what gives them the "right" to document this information outside an official police department document such as an incident report?

llwatson wrote:Security at the State Fair would be Dallas PD. At least, that was my experience.

Nobody can find any statutes in this matter?

BrassMonkey wrote:OK,
So what gives them the "right" to document this information outside an official police department document such as an incident report?

llwatson wrote:Security at the State Fair would be Dallas PD. At least, that was my experience.

BrassMonkey wrote:Nobody can find any statutes in this matter?

BrassMonkey wrote:OK,
So what gives them the "right" to document this information outside an official police department document such as an incident report?

llwatson wrote:Security at the State Fair would be Dallas PD. At least, that was my experience.

There is no specific authority granted, nor is there a statute prohibiting the collection of this data. Most of us don't like this procedure; it's unnecessary and to some it's a bit insulting, however, it's not unlawful.

Chas.

Thanks.

Now, is it lawful for them to refuse entry on the basis that I refuse to allow them to document information they have no authority to document in the first place?

Being a city park, with city employees, and city cops, don't they have to allow anyone entry unless there is specific legal grounds to refuse service/entry?

I want to draw a race parallel here, but the words are not coming to me just yet.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

BrassMonkey wrote:Nobody can find any statutes in this matter?

BrassMonkey wrote:OK,
So what gives them the "right" to document this information outside an official police department document such as an incident report?

llwatson wrote:Security at the State Fair would be Dallas PD. At least, that was my experience.

There is no specific authority granted, nor is there a statute prohibiting the collection of this data. Most of us don't like this procedure; it's unnecessary and to some it's a bit insulting, however, it's not unlawful.

Chas.

Oh, here's one.

Officer "Hi pretty lady. What is your address and phone number?"
Lady "Did I do something wrong?"
Officer: "No, I just want to write it down here in case I get bored later and want to find you"
Lady "Hello, 911? Youhave a problem here..."

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

BrassMonkey wrote:Nobody can find any statutes in this matter?

BrassMonkey wrote:OK,
So what gives them the "right" to document this information outside an official police department document such as an incident report?

llwatson wrote:Security at the State Fair would be Dallas PD. At least, that was my experience.

There is no specific authority granted, nor is there a statute prohibiting the collection of this data. Most of us don't like this procedure; it's unnecessary and to some it's a bit insulting, however, it's not unlawful.

Chas.

BrassMonkey wrote: Now, is it lawful for them to refuse entry on the basis that I refuse to allow them to document information they have no authority to document in the first place?

And how do you propose to do that? You're required by law to present your CHL if a peace officer requests it, and if, once they're holding it, they decide to write down some of your information, what exactly is your plan at that point?

Depends on what he is writing it on. His personal notepad, sure, some kind of "official' state fair document. "Please call a supervisor over here" I guess I would try to go easy on the guy who gets me since he doesn't make their "rules"

Xander wrote:

BrassMonkey wrote: Now, is it lawful for them to refuse entry on the basis that I refuse to allow them to document information they have no authority to document in the first place?

And how do you propose to do that? You're required by law to present your CHL if a peace officer requests it, and if, once they're holding it, they decide to write down some of your information, what exactly is your plan at that point?

BrassMonkey wrote:Thanks.

Now, is it lawful for them to refuse entry on the basis that I refuse to allow them to document information they have no authority to document in the first place?

Being a city park, with city employees, and city cops, don't they have to allow anyone entry unless there is specific legal grounds to refuse service/entry?

I want to draw a race parallel here, but the words are not coming to me just yet.

There is no authority to bar a CHL from government property, unless you allow them to document your CHL information. However, there is no practical way for you to keep them from documenting it. It would be reasonable for a LEO to "run" your CHL, or even call DPS if the CHL Division employees are in the office, to confirm that your CHL is valid. To do this, you can be required to give them your CHL. If you refuse to give them the CHL , then I believe you could be denied access, because you would have denied them the ability to validate your CHL. Remember, it's our status as CHL's that is controlling, not our possession of a plastic card. I realize this is a hyper-technical point, but it is one that law enforcement can legitimately use to get the information.

Chas.

I would think that sense the Texas government passed the law or what ever you want to call it about not publishing CHL names and numbers that they mayn't take yours this year at all.
On the other hand maybe they are tracking how many CHL people come to the Fair but they should not need any names to track that.
I suspect you would be with-in your rights to ask them not to write your name or info down for personal reasons.

Thanks Chas,
Now let's drill a hair deeper. All statutes I can find says we must "display" our card. No where does it say I have to hand it over. Is there another meaning of the word, "Display" that I am not aware of or did not see in another statute?

And in my feeble little mind, it sounds like you are saying that if I am pulled over, and "display" my CHL, and he cannot check it's validity for whatever reason(computer is down, irritated the dispatcher, whatever), the possesion of the plastic card does not prevent them from confiscating my weapon?

This is the kind of thing that someone needs to get "busted" on, since they can't get into court and it would set the proper precedent.

Hrmmm...

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

BrassMonkey wrote:Thanks.

Now, is it lawful for them to refuse entry on the basis that I refuse to allow them to document information they have no authority to document in the first place?

Being a city park, with city employees, and city cops, don't they have to allow anyone entry unless there is specific legal grounds to refuse service/entry?

I want to draw a race parallel here, but the words are not coming to me just yet.

There is no authority to bar a CHL from government property, unless you allow them to document your CHL information. However, there is no practical way for you to keep them from documenting it. It would be reasonable for a LEO to "run" your CHL, or even call DPS if the CHL Division employees are in the office, to confirm that your CHL is valid. To do this, you can be required to give them your CHL. If you refuse to give them the CHL , then I believe you could be denied access, because you would have denied them the ability to validate your CHL. Remember, it's our status as CHL's that is controlling, not our possession of a plastic card. I realize this is a hyper-technical point, but it is one that law enforcement can legitimately use to get the information.

Chas.

Sounds to me like someone is building their own database. I wonder if they do the same thing at their music in the park deals or other festivities in city parks?