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ScottDLS wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:30 pm
Navy doctrine was somewhat similar in the 1980s with CVN's leading the battle group for power projection. DDG's and CG's with phased array radar way out as pickets (i.e. as Soviet AS-4 missile sponges and SM-2 magazines for said sponges). Then DD's a little closer in with Tomahawk and Harpoon cruise missiles for surface attack and some torpedoes as a last ditch Hail Mary for enemy subs that got past the SSN's also guarding the battle group.

Plus all manner of Oilers, Tenders, and USNS supply ships to carry the JP-5, DFM, beans, bullets, spare parts, and ordnance for said battle group.

And we would sneak right inside all of those picket ships, launch "water slugs" (a torpedo tube full of water that simulates torpedo launch) and a flare to indicate our launching position. Once was so close to the USS Midway that our flare almost fell onto the flight deck. We watched crewmen running around after the flare went up pointing at where it came up from.

Good times!

Grayling813 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:21 pm

ScottDLS wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:30 pm
Navy doctrine was somewhat similar in the 1980s with CVN's leading the battle group for power projection. DDG's and CG's with phased array radar way out as pickets (i.e. as Soviet AS-4 missile sponges and SM-2 magazines for said sponges). Then DD's a little closer in with Tomahawk and Harpoon cruise missiles for surface attack and some torpedoes as a last ditch Hail Mary for enemy subs that got past the SSN's also guarding the battle group.

Plus all manner of Oilers, Tenders, and USNS supply ships to carry the JP-5, DFM, beans, bullets, spare parts, and ordnance for said battle group.

And we would sneak right inside all of those picket ships, launch "water slugs" (a torpedo tube full of water that simulates torpedo launch) and a flare to indicate our launching position. Once was so close to the USS Midway that our flare almost fell onto the flight deck. We watched crewmen running around after the flare went up pointing at where it came up from.

Good times!

That's why we were glad that the Soviet Alphas were so loud, so our SSN's could catch them before they could sink our pickets....I mean who would soak up all the AS4 missiles before they got to the carriers of not for the CG's and their erstwhile VLS missile magazines (aka DDG's).

ScottDLS wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:46 pm

Grayling813 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:21 pm

ScottDLS wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:30 pm
Navy doctrine was somewhat similar in the 1980s with CVN's leading the battle group for power projection. DDG's and CG's with phased array radar way out as pickets (i.e. as Soviet AS-4 missile sponges and SM-2 magazines for said sponges). Then DD's a little closer in with Tomahawk and Harpoon cruise missiles for surface attack and some torpedoes as a last ditch Hail Mary for enemy subs that got past the SSN's also guarding the battle group.

Plus all manner of Oilers, Tenders, and USNS supply ships to carry the JP-5, DFM, beans, bullets, spare parts, and ordnance for said battle group.

And we would sneak right inside all of those picket ships, launch "water slugs" (a torpedo tube full of water that simulates torpedo launch) and a flare to indicate our launching position. Once was so close to the USS Midway that our flare almost fell onto the flight deck. We watched crewmen running around after the flare went up pointing at where it came up from.

Good times!

That's why we were glad that the Soviet Alphas were so loud, so our SSN's could catch them before they could sink our pickets....I mean who would soak up all the AS4 missiles before they got to the carriers of not for the CG's and their erstwhile VLS missile magazines (aka DDG's).

Had an interesting conversation in the Philippines with a sonar tech from a destroyer that was with the battle group we were exercising with....said they heard us coming, then nothing. Next thing they heard was our water slugs and flare launches.

threoh8 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:30 am This reminded me of an old sci-fi novel, THE AYES OF TEXAS. Basically, an eccentric secretly updates the Battleship Texas and takes on Russia.

Absolutely LOVE this trilogy!!!!

I will never forget going to the Battleship Texas when I was a kid. I was mesmerized by it. Darn thing almost caused me to join the navy. LOL

One thing that I wonder about now is the relative lack of CIWS platforms on modern USN warships. At the outset of WW2, surface ships all had a sensible number of AA guns. By the end of WW2, sour urface ships looked like porcupines with 5" DP mounts, Bofors and 20mm mounts for quills. That transition wasn't made because sailors were doddling on the decks- it was a decision born of bombs striking our warships.

Fast forward to modern times: NOTHING good happens when something hits your ship going Mach 10, but the results are far worse if that object explodes once it is inside. Procurement and maintenance on a bunch of 20mm gatling cannons seems comparatively cheap compared to a single missile hit on a CVN.

Although many Americans consider Russia a serious foe, they do not have the ability to project much power worldwide. This is because their lone carrier, the "Admiral Kuznetsov" (sp?) has troublesome reliability, no catapault, and a "jump" deck. This jump deck decreases the amount of fuel and bombs their aircraft can carry. Tugboats have to accompany it due to engine issues. Recently workmen set it on fire while welding, so now it's totally useless for the foreseeable future.

Russia sold a carrier to India, then did a massive bait and switch on upgrade costs and timeframes.

SIA

Grayling813 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:53 am I had seen numerous aircraft carriers both docked, passing by in channels and at sea. None were as impressive as the first time I saw a battleship.

we had on of these BIG bad gun carrying ships behind us at seas back in 19 hmmmm 84 for independence day at sea

she fired off illumination and some other item rounds from the big guns and was roughly 2k feet behind our ship WHOLLY FREAKING COW the whole ship shook and i thought i would be knocked down

impressive as you know what,

One other interesting factoid/historical oddity:

Nearly all of the Japanese carriers SHOULD have been sunk by US submarines in 1942 and 1943, in that all sustained torpedo hits which would've been fatal with working torpedoes. The criminally negligent performance of the pre-war Bureau of Ordnance (abetted by Congress) in fielding a torpedo with a faulty detonator that ran deep essentially kept the IJN in the war for an additional 2 years.

There's a great Youtuber who goes by "Drachinifel" who does a lot of cool WW1-WW2 warship videos, but his Mk 14 video was insightful on a subject that I had spent time looking into. I didn't realize the full extent of the losses that the IJN avoided during the early war, particularly to its carriers, until watching that video. I bring it up because it highlights the gravity of the shift in naval power from battleships to submarines even as early as 1942 (though that transition was camoflaged by bureaucratic incompetence).