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It's really weird stuff like this that made me decide to just go ahead and sbr my 300 blackout. The reclassification of bump stocks helps illustrate the why as well.

Jago668 wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:34 pm It's really weird stuff like this that made me decide to just go ahead and sbr my 300 blackout. The reclassification of bump stocks helps illustrate the why as well.

Yeah, I understand. I have an AR pistol I bought a couple of years ago. Actually like the little guy...but I'd want to slap on ear protection before I used it even for home defense. But at the time there was still much hand-wringing over buffer tube braces and what would happen legally if you ever--accidentally or intentionally--shouldered one to shoot. Now, there are actually length adjustable braces! In other words, "stocks" that are called "braces" only because there's a place to put your forearm inside of it. This topic about a 26" gun--that I'll bet might have an adjustable brace on it--not being classified as a rifle has me envisioning someone built like the Incredible Hulk--8 feet tall and able to lift trucks--shooting a full sized AR, with an optic and a 100-rnd drum and mounted light, one-handed with a 20-inch forearm stuck through the brace.

broberts001 wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:22 am I am hoping to get an answer to this question; hoping it has been previously addressed.

I know we can open carry a long gun (rifle) with no issue.
I know we can conceal carry and open carry handguns (with holster) with no issues.

But, what about a "firearm". By "firearms", am referring to a weapon such as an AR15 that is > 26" with no stock, with a brace and a vertical grip. This does not meet NFA requirements as an AOW or SBR. It does not meet the definition of a pistol nor a rifle. So, can it be carrier like a long gun in Texas, slung over my back?

Thank you,

Bryan

I guess I'll answer the actual question asked...

Texas restricts the carriage of "handguns" which is a term in turn defined by Penal Code §46.01(5) - "Handgun" means any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand. As long as you're following requirements federal law sets regarding NFA registration and the like, the primary "can I carry it?" question for Texas is "is it designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand or two hands" rather than "is it a rifle or a shotgun or a handgun or something else." Two examples:

1 - You take a double barreled shotgun, get a tax stamp for it, and cut it down to something which looks like this:



Federal law says that it's a short barreled shotgun and not a pistol, but Texas case law says that it's both a short barreled shotgun AND a "handgun" for the purposes of §46.01 because it's been adapted to be fired with one hand. CHL required to carry, must be concealed or carried in a holster, subject to §30.06/07, etc.

2 - You have a GCA "firearm" like you're describing, which looks like this:



Federal law says that it's a generic "firearm" for the Gun Control Act but not for the NFA, so no tax stamp required. Texas case law says it's not a "handgun" because it is not designed to be carried with one hand. Having literally two handgrips makes it pretty clear. No CHL required to carry concealed or open, could be on a sling, etc. - just be wary of carrying it in a threatening manner in public so disorderly conduct isn't a problem.

A quick related legal addendum - the NFA defines an Any Other Weapon as anything which can be concealed on the person other than antiques and "pistols", which includes actually concealed on the person as some clear evidence of concealability - 26 inches is a presumptive guideline, but anything which is actually concealed is concealable regardless of length. Texas law says it would be fine to conceal that sort of generic "firearm" with or without a CHL, but, I wouldn't carry it in a bag or under a coat unless I got a stamp for it first.

^^^ Thank you for that thoughtful answer. This was my understanding as well. I guess the key is "concealed". It is presumed that the "firearm" is not carried concealed on my person. If it was/is - it could then be treated as an NFA item. So, the best practice for this type of weapon, in the case of TX, is to have it in the open like a long gun.

Just to clarify, I have my share of SBR but sometimes like to mix up my current practice/training tool depending on the needs of the shooter utilizing it. Now I just need to find the case law to support these opinions.

Thank you,

Bryan

denwego wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:20 pm
2 - You have a GCA "firearm" like you're describing, which looks like this:



Federal law says that it's a generic "firearm" for the Gun Control Act but not for the NFA, so no tax stamp required. Texas case law says it's not a "handgun" because it is not designed to be carried with one hand. Having literally two handgrips makes it pretty clear. No CHL required to carry concealed or open, could be on a sling, etc. - just be wary of carrying it in a threatening manner in public so disorderly conduct isn't a problem.

A quick related legal addendum - the NFA defines an Any Other Weapon as anything which can be concealed on the person other than antiques and "pistols", which includes actually concealed on the person as some clear evidence of concealability - 26 inches is a presumptive guideline, but anything which is actually concealed is concealable regardless of length. Texas law says it would be fine to conceal that sort of generic "firearm" with or without a CHL, but, I wouldn't carry it in a bag or under a coat unless I got a stamp for it first.

The above is actually ILLEGAL.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/open- ... n/download
Clarification: If overall length is under 26 inches.
https://www.guntrustguru.com/can-i-add- ... istol.html

extremist wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:33 pm

denwego wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:20 pm
2 - You have a GCA "firearm" like you're describing, which looks like this:



Federal law says that it's a generic "firearm" for the Gun Control Act but not for the NFA, so no tax stamp required. Texas case law says it's not a "handgun" because it is not designed to be carried with one hand. Having literally two handgrips makes it pretty clear. No CHL required to carry concealed or open, could be on a sling, etc. - just be wary of carrying it in a threatening manner in public so disorderly conduct isn't a problem.

A quick related legal addendum - the NFA defines an Any Other Weapon as anything which can be concealed on the person other than antiques and "pistols", which includes actually concealed on the person as some clear evidence of concealability - 26 inches is a presumptive guideline, but anything which is actually concealed is concealable regardless of length. Texas law says it would be fine to conceal that sort of generic "firearm" with or without a CHL, but, I wouldn't carry it in a bag or under a coat unless I got a stamp for it first.

The above is actually ILLEGAL.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/open- ... n/download
Clarification: If overall length is under 26 inches.
https://www.guntrustguru.com/can-i-add- ... istol.html

Yep the verticals grip is a no-no on an AR Pistol.

carlson1 wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:43 pm

extremist wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:33 pm

denwego wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:20 pm
2 - You have a GCA "firearm" like you're describing, which looks like this:



Federal law says that it's a generic "firearm" for the Gun Control Act but not for the NFA, so no tax stamp required. Texas case law says it's not a "handgun" because it is not designed to be carried with one hand. Having literally two handgrips makes it pretty clear. No CHL required to carry concealed or open, could be on a sling, etc. - just be wary of carrying it in a threatening manner in public so disorderly conduct isn't a problem.

A quick related legal addendum - the NFA defines an Any Other Weapon as anything which can be concealed on the person other than antiques and "pistols", which includes actually concealed on the person as some clear evidence of concealability - 26 inches is a presumptive guideline, but anything which is actually concealed is concealable regardless of length. Texas law says it would be fine to conceal that sort of generic "firearm" with or without a CHL, but, I wouldn't carry it in a bag or under a coat unless I got a stamp for it first.

The above is actually ILLEGAL.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/open- ... n/download
Clarification: If overall length is under 26 inches.
https://www.guntrustguru.com/can-i-add- ... istol.html

Yep the verticals grip is a no-no on an AR Pistol.

Perfectly fine if the overall length is greater than 26 inches and the firearm is not concealed on the person - ATF ruling letter on the subject