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Target1911 wrote:Oh....and one of the Cossacks killed is an AA pilot

Criminal? Yeah...OK

I just did a quick google search a found dozens of examples of commercial pilots being charged with drug violations. So, yes an AA pilot can be a criminal.

92f-fan wrote:One report of the wounds listed a very high % of head shots among the dead.
Previous poster here quoted that SWAT team opened fire on "seeing" a gun.

2 things - that many head shots means some accurate shooting AND I didnt think that SWAT typically aimed for the head - its a low % shot.

the low reports of "collateral damage" is interesting as well

Head shots may mean executions or very close quarter shooting, rather than very accurate shooting. It seemed somewhere I read many more of the dead and injured were sustained by the Cossacks group.

I hope the Waco PD was able, with such a large crowd of suspects, to go all CSI on everyone and bag everyone's hands, etc. rather than completely relying on witnesses.

Target1911 wrote:Oh....and one of the Cossacks killed is an AA pilot

Criminal? Yeah...OK

You mean there are no such things as criminal pilots?

• http://www.aviationcriminal.com/
• http://www.nytimes.com/1990/03/23/us/cr ... ilots.html
• And the kicker....http://www.biography.com/people/frank-abagnale-20657335

That took me 5 minutes or less.

I'm not trying to smear the profession, but pilots are humans, and some of them will go wrong, just like other humans. And.... I concede that Frank Abagnale was not a real pilot......but Pan American Airways apparently thought he was!

philip964 wrote:

92f-fan wrote:One report of the wounds listed a very high % of head shots among the dead.
Previous poster here quoted that SWAT team opened fire on "seeing" a gun.

2 things - that many head shots means some accurate shooting AND I didnt think that SWAT typically aimed for the head - its a low % shot.

the low reports of "collateral damage" is interesting as well

Head shots may mean executions or very close quarter shooting, rather than very accurate shooting. It seemed somewhere I read many more of the dead and injured were sustained by the Cossacks group.

I hope the Waco PD was able, with such a large crowd of suspects, to go all CSI on everyone and bag everyone's hands, etc. rather than completely relying on witnesses.

8 Cossacks dead
1 Bandido
Not sure about the breakdown of the injured.

Yes I am very aware of that.

You do realize that the same people on this forum that preach "innocent until proven guilty" are the same ones that are jumping on the FRY EM ALL wagon? The same ones that scream the MSM is liberal and full of it are not willing to accept that some of these guys are GREAT PEOPLE....but because they belong to a Motorcycle Club they must be criminals....

I happen to know (as I mentioned) several of the Cossacks and though they may get rowdy, they are far from criminals.

Yeah...they did put the TEXAS rocker on their vest and in doing so kicked dirt in the face of the other club ..... knowing it will cause issues. But they are willing to stand up for themselves and not be bullied.

I've said it before. ... they were ambushed. That is why 8 Cossacks and 1 bandido.

That many head shots I am betting were close quarter shots.

Target1911 wrote:Yes I am very aware of that.

You do realize that the same people on this forum that preach "innocent until proven guilty" are the same ones that are jumping on the FRY EM ALL wagon? The same ones that scream the MSM is liberal and full of it are not willing to accept that some of these guys are GREAT PEOPLE....but because they belong to a Motorcycle Club they must be criminals....

I happen to know (as I mentioned) several of the Cossacks and though they may get rowdy, they are far from criminals.

Yeah...they did put the TEXAS rocker on their vest and in doing so kicked dirt in the face of the other club ..... knowing it will cause issues. But they are willing to stand up for themselves and not be bullied.

No one has said "fry em all". They are all suspects in a a violent crime that endangered many and have been arrested pending the investigation. Do you want the cops to let them all go?

Just because you claim to know a couple of them doesn't make them good guys. Maybe this is another example how important discretion and discernment in choosing friends is.

Target1911 wrote:I've said it before. ... they were ambushed. That is why 8 Cossacks and 1 bandido.

That many head shots I am betting were close quarter shots.

Maybe they just weren't as tough as the other guys.

mojo84 wrote:

Target1911 wrote:I've said it before. ... they were ambushed. That is why 8 Cossacks and 1 bandido.

That many head shots I am betting were close quarter shots.

Maybe they just weren't as tough as the other guys.

WOW. That's A pretty simple minded statement there. Carry one. Your way of rhinking is not worth my energy

jmra wrote:

Target1911 wrote:Oh....and one of the Cossacks killed is an AA pilot

Criminal? Yeah...OK

I just did a quick google search a found dozens of examples of commercial pilots being charged with drug violations. So, yes an AA pilot can be a criminal.

Drug violations? There are two kinds of criminals in this country...actual criminals who transgress morally and injure others and those who are created by government prohibitionist laws. I don't consider someone busted for marijuana possession, for instance, to be a criminal, no matter what the government calls them. Rush Limbaugh is a "criminal" by the same standards, and while I"m not a fan of Limbaugh, I don''t consider him a criminal because he illegally took painkillers.

The bogus war on drugs has done more damage to liberty and the US Constitution that all terrorist acts combined....then again, so has the so called "war on terror."

Target1911 wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

Target1911 wrote:I've said it before. ... they were ambushed. That is why 8 Cossacks and 1 bandido.

That many head shots I am betting were close quarter shots.

Maybe they just weren't as tough as the other guys.

WOW. That's A pretty simple minded statement there. Carry one. Your way of rhinking is not worth my energy

My theory makes more sense than an ambush. They all knew why they were there and what could develop.

Trying to make them out to be pillars of the community is laughable.

mojo84 wrote:

Target1911 wrote:Yes I am very aware of that.

You do realize that the same people on this forum that preach "innocent until proven guilty" are the same ones that are jumping on the FRY EM ALL wagon? The same ones that scream the MSM is liberal and full of it are not willing to accept that some of these guys are GREAT PEOPLE....but because they belong to a Motorcycle Club they must be criminals....

I happen to know (as I mentioned) several of the Cossacks and though they may get rowdy, they are far from criminals.

Yeah...they did put the TEXAS rocker on their vest and in doing so kicked dirt in the face of the other club ..... knowing it will cause issues. But they are willing to stand up for themselves and not be bullied.

No one has said "fry em all". They are all suspects in a a violent crime that endangered many and have been arrested pending the investigation. Do you want the cops to let them all go?

Just because you claim to know a couple of them doesn't make them good guys. Maybe this is another example how important discretion and discernment in choosing friends is.

Let them all go? That's a strawman. No one has suggested letting them "all" go. Arresting everyone present, without evidence of committing a crime, and assessing a $1 million bond, doesn't meet Constitutional standards. Mass arrests and collective punishment are features of totalitarian police states, not Constitutional Republics (not that this is any longer a Constitutional Republic). The system isn't supposed to exist to make police work easy, it's supposed to exist to ensure liberty and individual rights.

Do you really think there are going to be trials for all 170 arrested? Do you think that the majority of those arrested will even be charged with a crime? If the police think you could have committed a crime because you happen to be around where a crime is committed, should they be able to arrest and imprison you until they can collect enough evidence to decide to try you or let you go, or should they have to have enough evidence to have probable cause for an arrest in the first place? It appears rather obvious that the police didn't know who all did what so they just arrested everyone intending to sort it out later.

Target1911 wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:
All the while the rest of the club is living up to its 1% patch.

We did receive multiple APBs warning of the death threat to LEOs. We take this very seriously.

Ya may want to check your facts. Cossacks are not a 1% Club and do not wear a 1% patch

As to all the other criminal activity you say they do.....I honestly cant say one way or the other but I do know that the handful That I have known [ranging] from 10 to 14 years are not and would not be involved in such activities. However they dont mind getting a little rowdy....but you dont have to be a biker to enjoy that.


also some have made mention over the years of getting shot by the cops while you are defending yourself against a bad buy.... IF the cops actually did fire a shot, that is exactly what happened.

My partner and I arrested a couple of Cossacks last summer and both had 1% patches. Yes they are a outlaw motorcycle gang. This was confirmed by our local Texas ranger. If you believe they are good stand up guys, good for you. I'm sure the bloods and crips are just misunderstood too.

After looking at pictures of the Cossacks, I noticed several of them were sporting SS Lightning Bolt tattoos. You know, just like the Nazi symbol.

Gosh, all the guys in my neighbourhood have those. Some have it right on their face!! Just regular old, salt of the earth folks.

VMI77 wrote:

jmra wrote:

Target1911 wrote:Oh....and one of the Cossacks killed is an AA pilot

Criminal? Yeah...OK

I just did a quick google search a found dozens of examples of commercial pilots being charged with drug violations. So, yes an AA pilot can be a criminal.

Drug violations? There are two kinds of criminals in this country...actual criminals who transgress morally and injure others and those who are created by government prohibitionist laws. I don't consider someone busted for marijuana possession, for instance, to be a criminal, no matter what the government calls them. Rush Limbaugh is a "criminal" by the same standards, and while I"m not a fan of Limbaugh, I don''t consider him a criminal because he illegally took painkillers.

The bogus war on drugs has done more damage to liberty and the US Constitution that all terrorist acts combined....then again, so has the so called "war on terror."

Nope, this was the hard stuff. Ultimately the law is the law and who you consider to be a criminal isn't relevant. The point is the people in these gangs are criminals regardless of how you try to spin it.