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Re: Corona Virus (COVID-19)( SARS-CoV-2) from China: Its going to be bad.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 6:34 am
by TxRVer
philip964 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:56 pm
If your old like me, or are overweight or have other issues the Covid could kill you, it’s a no brainer. If your under 30 and in great shape, the shot may be a greater risk than getting the disease. Tough decision.
I hesitated to get the vaccine, but I'm 65 and overweight with diabetes. I figured I'd take my chances with the vaccine instead of the virus.
Re: Corona Virus (COVID-19)( SARS-CoV-2) from China: Its going to be bad.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 6:45 am
by mayor
Ruark wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:23 pm
What's really silly is all this foil hat paranoia about getting the shot. Good heavens, it's just a freaking version of a flu shot for crying out loud. Just get the freaking shot so we can get past this. There's a private school in Miami, for example, that refuses to hire anybody who has had a vaccine shot. They actually believe that you can get seriously ill by simply standing too close to someone who's been vaccinated. Good grief. GET YOUR SHOTS!!
NO.
Re: Corona Virus (COVID-19)( SARS-CoV-2) from China: Its going to be bad.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 8:46 am
by Ruark
jb2012 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:02 pm
A virus with over 99% survival rate? A vaccine with virtually no long term testing? So I’m the one with a tinfoil hat, as a healthy 27 year old for not injecting chemicals in my body for a virus I have over 99% chance of surviving? Come on man.
The ONLY active ingredient in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines is the mRNA, which is simply genetic material that provides instructions for our body on how to make a viral protein that triggers an immune response to the Covid virus. It was subjected to the same rigorous testing as any other vaccine, including Phase III testing on over 40,000 people. Good grief, you'd think it was cyanide or something.
https://www.hackensackmeridianhealth.or ... -vaccines/
Also, there's WAY too much focus on "survival rate." Yes, you can die from Covid, and I have several personal friends who have. They were otherwise healthy, too. Almost 600,000 people have died from it. But just because you don't die doesn't mean everything's peachy. Just ask any hospital where they have to set up ICU beds in the hallways because they're overflowing with Covid patients. You want to lie flat on your back for a month breathing through a plastic tube, then pat yourself on the back for your "survival"? No thanks.
Re: Corona Virus (COVID-19)( SARS-CoV-2) from China: Its going to be bad.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 9:13 am
by 03Lightningrocks
I got the Pfizer because I’m 60, 65 pounds over weight and started smoking again a couple years back. My risk of death from Covid was higher than my risk of that vaccine. I’m OK with growing a tail in 20 years. If I make it that long a tail is the least of my worries.
If I was healthy and below 35, I wouldn't consider getting vaxed.
Re: Corona Virus (COVID-19)( SARS-CoV-2) from China: Its going to be bad.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 9:16 am
by flechero
Ruark wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 8:46 am
Also, there's WAY too much focus on "survival rate."
Well to be fair- One could argue there is WAY too much emphasis put on the doom and gloom, ventilator, month on your back, barely survive, etc.
I know dozens of people from our school who have had it, plus it went through our house, back before a vac was available...
The worst I've seen was my 75 yo mother in law and she was no worse off than a mild flu and 1 kid from school who developed migraines (they
think) from covid. Most of us never even showed symptoms. I lost some taste/smell, but no other issues.
I have a number of Dr. friends and all were apprehensive about the vac, but required by employers. And all but 1 said they'd NOT allow young person or their own kids get it. All citing unknown long term effects.
I'll take the word of actual Dr.'s I know and trust (one of which worked at the mayo clinic and actually studied virology and vaccines in her early career) over the flip flopping "science" of fauci and joe.
I don't tell people not to get vaccinated-
it's not a black and white answer for all. I just ask that you respect the decision I made, with the consulting advice of my physician, and I'll do the same for you, in return.
Re: Corona Virus (COVID-19)( SARS-CoV-2) from China: Its going to be bad.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 9:20 am
by 03Lightningrocks
flechero wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 9:16 am
Ruark wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 8:46 am
Also, there's WAY too much focus on "survival rate."
Well to be fair- One could argue there is WAY too much emphasis put on the doom and gloom, ventilator, month on your back, barely survive, etc.
I know dozens of people from our school who have had it, plus it went through our house, back before a vac was available...
The worst I've seen was my 75 yo mother in law and she was no worse off than a mild flu and 1 kid from school who developed migraines (they
think) from covid. Most of us never even showed symptoms. I lost some taste/smell, but no other issues.
I have a number of Dr. friends and all were apprehensive about the vac, but required by employers. And all but 1 said they'd NOT allow young person or their own kids get it. All citing unknown long term effects.
I'll take the word of actual Dr.'s I know and trust (one of which worked at the mayo clinic and actually studied virology and vaccines in her early career) over the flip flopping "science" of fauci and joe.
I don't tell people not to get vaccinated-
it's not a black and white answer for all. I just ask that you respect the decision I made, with the consulting advice of my physician, and I'll do the same for you, in return.
Survival seems random to me. Several people, 5, members of my family got it. Including my 79 year old mother. All cruised through it fine except my overweight 56 year old brother. Darn near killed him and left him with permanent lung damage.
Re: Corona Virus (COVID-19)( SARS-CoV-2) from China: Its going to be bad.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 9:58 am
by Ruark
flechero wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 9:16 am
Ruark wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 8:46 am
Also, there's WAY too much focus on "survival rate."
Well to be fair- One could argue there is WAY too much emphasis put on the doom and gloom, ventilator, month on your back, barely survive, etc.
I don't tell people not to get vaccinated-
it's not a black and white answer for all. I just ask that you respect the decision I made, with the consulting advice of my physician, and I'll do the same for you, in return.
It's hard not to "emphasize" it when you see large hospitals who can't even accept new patients because all of their beds are being used for covid patients. My wife, for example, had an attack of trigeminal neuralgia a couple of months ago, one of the most painful conditions in the field of medicine. She was in the ER and seriously needed to be admitted to the hospital. They couldn't take her. Why? They were full of covid patients.
I respect your decision, but the nagging element here is that your decision isn't made in isolation; it affects everybody, both pro and anti vax, by perpetuating packed hospitals, shutdowns, oppressive masking requirements, etc. Thankfully, since about 40% of the US population has now been vaccinated, that situation is starting to diminish and "mask required" signs are starting to come down and businesses are reopening. But we still have a long way to go.
Re: Corona Virus (COVID-19)( SARS-CoV-2) from China: Its going to be bad.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 12:27 pm
by mayor
Ruark wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 9:58 am
I respect your decision, but ...
I respectfully disagree that you do because the argument continues.
NO, it's not for me and it's not for you to decide.
Re: Corona Virus (COVID-19)( SARS-CoV-2) from China: Its going to be bad.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 12:36 pm
by flechero
Ruark wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 9:58 am
I respect your decision, but the nagging element here is that your decision isn't made in isolation; it affects everybody, both pro and anti vax, by perpetuating packed hospitals, shutdowns, oppressive masking requirements, etc.
The reality is that my antibodies are currently more effective than the vaccine. Documented reinfection rates are extremely low. So as it stands, I am no greater threat to anyone else by not taking it. I don't know where you are but our local hospitals are not being taxed by covid.
I'm much more likely to get in to a car accident and "burden the hospital staff" right now than I am to be a burden with covid.
I don't insist anyone mask, double mask or other. I have always believed that if you are at risk, you need to be vigilant. And even when the "science" said masks didn't work, I still respected the signs and wore one where requested or in crowds.
I'm not anti vax- I'm just not yet comfortable with
this vax. That will likely change once some time has passed.
Re: Corona Virus (COVID-19)( SARS-CoV-2) from China: Its going to be bad.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 1:03 pm
by RoyGBiv
flechero wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:36 pmThe reality is that my antibodies are currently more effective than the vaccine.
No. Not actually.
A virology researcher on another gun forum had been posting about his antibody titers post vaccination, comparing them to titers from recovered patients. 2 weeks after his second dose of Phizer (?) his numbers were >10x the antibody levels seen in the recovering patients he had tested.
Re: Corona Virus (COVID-19)( SARS-CoV-2) from China: Its going to be bad.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 1:21 pm
by flechero
RoyGBiv wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:03 pm
flechero wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:36 pmThe reality is that my antibodies are currently more effective than the vaccine.
No. Not actually.
A virology researcher on another gun forum had been posting about his antibody titers post vaccination, comparing them to titers from recovered patients. 2 weeks after his second dose of Phizer (?) his numbers were >10x the antibody levels seen in the recovering patients he had tested.
His.
Sample of 1. My mother in law got much sicker from shot #2 than covid. And she's "high risk." Using that sample of 1- no one should get the vaccine. No single sample means much.
Most of what I've read says the vaccine reduces severity of covid in most people, more than it prevents infection. Reinfection rates suggest that real antibodies work better than vax created ones.
We can agree to disagree - just like the scientists.
Re: Corona Virus (COVID-19)( SARS-CoV-2) from China: Its going to be bad.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 1:38 pm
by RoyGBiv
flechero wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:21 pm
Most of what I've read says the vaccine reduces severity of covid in most people, more than it prevents infection. Reinfection rates suggest that real antibodies work better than vax created ones.
We can agree to disagree - just like the scientists.
I'd appreciate a link to that post-infection vs vaccine-generated antibody effectiveness information. First I've heard it.
In order for the "primarily it reduces severity" claim to be true, we'd be seeing thousands more "breakthrough" cases, where vaccinated people later test positive for live infection. Instead, we see relatively few breakthrough cases.
Indeed, we can agree to disagree, but, I would like to see/read about this effectiveness comparison if you have a link or two.
Thanks.
Re: Corona Virus (COVID-19)( SARS-CoV-2) from China: Its going to be bad.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 5:09 pm
by jerry_r60
Real world data from actual studies and not anecdotal experience or observation are corroborating the efficacy observed in the mRNA trials.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021 ... eness.html
Re: Corona Virus (COVID-19)( SARS-CoV-2) from China: Its going to be bad.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 5:18 pm
by philip964
So did Fauci plan a surprise for Trump in 2017?
Re: Corona Virus (COVID-19)( SARS-CoV-2) from China: Its going to be bad.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 5:32 pm
by flechero
well crud! I managed to shut the tab I was in and lost the my links and comments. Not spending another 30 minutes recreating itall so here's the short version. Not all from same sources. SOme of what I said are from conversations with Dr. friends (and they cite sources) but I can't recall all of them.
google reinfection rates and then breakthrough rates. lots of commentary there and the numbers are much lower for reinfection in what I have read.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 9/fulltext
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... fection-84
https://www.statnews.com/2021/04/07/cov ... seem-rare/
https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/08/c ... n-tracker/ not a scientific source- just a reinfection tracking page
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/h ... -data.html
I know that nothing I post is definitive and for every study that says one thing, you can find a counter point.... I really miss the days of being able to trust science and medical info!