TexasCHLforum.com

dawgfishboy wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:... And refuse to acknowledge the right of free enterprise...

I think most people are just venting and using "gouging" when they really mean "profiteering." Besides, is it really a "free market" when the government is creating demand by threatening supply?

Absolutely!!!

Just for the record. Use of the words gouging or profiteering are both incorrect in this situation. What we are witnessing is supply and demand at its finest.

I'm not a graduate of a big time college like some around here. I do, however, own and operate a business. I know a thing or three about running a business in a manner in which to stay successful and hopefully grow.

Here is how the numbers game works for any and every business. Whether it be a home business or a bricks and mortar. Whether it be a service business or retail. It matters not.

A business has a fixed cost to operate. This fixed cost must be met to remain open. If you don't pay the bills, you close the doors.

For the sake of making a point and keeping this simple, I will use small numbers that probably don't represent the actual cost of company x to stay open.

Cost to stay open per month. = 1000.00

This means, just to break even, a company has to make PROFIT of 1000.00.

How do we make a profit of 1000.00. We sell 100 GIDETS at a 10 dollar profit each.

Terrific... Easy to do. Except for one problem. We can only get 50 GIDGETS from the manufacturer.

Oh snap!!! Now what do we have to do to cover our cost to stay open...

We have to make a profit of 20 dollars per gidget instead of ten!

Get what I am trying to point out yet?? These companies are no longer able to get enough of the products to cover their overhead and continue to sell at the same price when product was plentiful. They have no choice other than to increase how much they make on the limited supply they can acquire.

Gouging?? Price fixing??? I think not....


EDIT: PUT THE WORD GIDGET IN PLACE SO WE DONT GET OFF TRACK.

CTD does not need a few dollars profit on Pmags to stay in business.

CTD canceled all backorders so they could jack up the price on existing stock and resell at inflated price.

CTD stopped gun sales until they were called out on their webpage.

CTD = bottom feeders.

In a free enterprise market, if you treat your customers like garbage, they will reciprocate. This is going to hurt CTD in the long run.

A company has the right to charge whatever they like - I have the right to shop wherever I like. I no longer like to shop at CTD.

Well OK then, Chris. You are probably right. I most likely don't know what I am talking about. I can't testify about the ethics of CTD...I haven't done business with them. I can tell you that a company MUST make enough gross revenue to cover base operating expenses. You can either do this by selling a large quantity of low priced products or a smaller quantity of higher priced products. If you cannot get a "large quantity" from the suppliers, there is only one option left.

My post was not about PMAGS... read it again.

jmra wrote:A company has the right to charge whatever they like - I have the right to shop wherever I like. I no longer like to shop at CTD.

Exactly right! That is the magic part of supply and demand. Eventually, enough folks will think like you and refuse to buy the products. The inventory will build back up and the prices will begin to drop until an equilibrium is reached.

v-rog wrote:Here is another one:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/GUN-6920

Cheaper than GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Colt LE6920 Semi Auto Rifle .223 Rem/5.56 NATO 16.1" Barrel 20 Rounds Collapsible Stock Removable Carry Handle Black LE6920
(no reviews)
Our Low Price:
$3,895.00
[ Image ]
Ships from warehouse: What is this?

Just so this post doesn't get lost in the previous on-going-going-going conversation on free-markets!

v-rog wrote:

v-rog wrote:Here is another one:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/GUN-6920

Cheaper than GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Colt LE6920 Semi Auto Rifle .223 Rem/5.56 NATO 16.1" Barrel 20 Rounds Collapsible Stock Removable Carry Handle Black LE6920
(no reviews)
Our Low Price:
$3,895.00
[ Image ]
Ships from warehouse: What is this?

Just so this post doesn't get lost in the previous on-going-going-going conversation on free-markets!

I just checked that link. In all fairness, they do offer free shipping with that.

03Lightningrocks,

You, me, a few others on this thread have done what they can to point out how the free enterprise systems works - beyond that, there's little more we can do...

03Lightningrocks wrote:

v-rog wrote:

v-rog wrote:Here is another one:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/GUN-6920

Cheaper than GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Colt LE6920 Semi Auto Rifle .223 Rem/5.56 NATO 16.1" Barrel 20 Rounds Collapsible Stock Removable Carry Handle Black LE6920
(no reviews)
Our Low Price:
$3,895.00
[ Image ]
Ships from warehouse: What is this?

Just so this post doesn't get lost in the previous on-going-going-going conversation on free-markets!

I just checked that link. In all fairness, they do offer free shipping with that.

03Lightningrocks wrote:Just for the record. Use of the words gouging or profiteering are both incorrect in this situation. What we are witnessing is supply and demand at its finest.

That's your opinion. I've witnessed profiteering 1st hand and will never return to that place of business. I'm glad Walmart and Academy have limited ammo purchases to at least try to curb it...and their prices are still fair IMO.

Abraham wrote:03Lightningrocks,

You, me, a few others on this thread have done what they can to point out how the free enterprise systems works - beyond that, there's little more we can do...

You're not educating anyone...the people reporting these profiteers are.

I don't think anyone is saying what they are doing is illegal, just unethical.

dawgfishboy wrote:

Abraham wrote:03Lightningrocks,

You, me, a few others on this thread have done what they can to point out how the free enterprise systems works - beyond that, there's little more we can do...

You're not educating anyone...the people reporting these profiteers are.

I don't think anyone is saying what they are doing is illegal, just unethical.

Ethics has nothing to do with it. How can you say this is unethical?

Lightningrocks and Abe got it right.

Anygunanywhere

anygunanywhere wrote:

dawgfishboy wrote:

Abraham wrote:03Lightningrocks,

You, me, a few others on this thread have done what they can to point out how the free enterprise systems works - beyond that, there's little more we can do...

You're not educating anyone...the people reporting these profiteers are.

I don't think anyone is saying what they are doing is illegal, just unethical.

Ethics has nothing to do with it. How can you say this is unethical?

Lightningrocks and Abe got it right.

Anygunanywhere

Actually, increasing pricing during short periods emergency or short periods of high demand is technically unethical (or at least that how it was taught to me...).


Examples of Unethical Pricing Strategies

Price gouging is an example of an unethical pricing strategy. A company may raise prices of items that are temporarily in high demand. This is sometimes seen in the wake of emergency situations when the price of plywood jumps after a flood, even though there is enough plywood to repair houses. Predatory pricing, on the other hand, involves pricing a product low enough to dampen demand. This type of pricing is typically used to end a competitive threat. The company lowering the price is operating to protect market share from moving to the competition.


That being said I think for most folks are posting to this thread not because they don't believe in the free market system, but because they want to make their fellow gun owners aware of the companies who chose short term profits over long term customers.

anygunanywhere wrote:

dawgfishboy wrote:

Abraham wrote:03Lightningrocks,

You, me, a few others on this thread have done what they can to point out how the free enterprise systems works - beyond that, there's little more we can do...

You're not educating anyone...the people reporting these profiteers are.

I don't think anyone is saying what they are doing is illegal, just unethical.

Ethics has nothing to do with it. How can you say this is unethical?

Lightningrocks and Abe got it right.

Anygunanywhere

If CTD canceled pending backorders (a transaction that was agreed upon by seller and purchaser for a given amount at a future time) to allow CTD to increase prices, as alleged by others in this thread, I would say that's unethical. If they did it to adjust for the increase costs passed on by their suppliers, that's a matter of business as the conditions of the transaction changed. If the price increases were just conducted on future orders, that's neither illegal nor unethical -- but a good way to turn off loyal customers. Consumers are loyal to certain businesses because they expect reasonable consideration in return; that is to say, a loyal customer expects a certain margin of profit to be made off an order, but not anything like the ratios we have seen with Pmags, etc. Even if legal and ethical, I choose not to support businesses which overnight quadrupled (or more) their profit margins on firearm related products, regardless of whether the market would sustain such pricing.