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mojo84 wrote:The republicans/tea partiers need to do a better job of explaining and getting their message out. Doing the right thing is not the problem. Not properly communicating the message is the problem.

I'd expand that. Not properly communicating the message is part of the problem. Focusing that communication on a vary narrow part of the population is another part of the problem. Republicans can't afford to exclude portions of the population. Democrats are willing partly due to being so inclusionary. Include more people and soften the message a bit, it'll go a long way to turning things around for the Republicans.

Cliff's notes on Chas who will win if the government shuts down:
1) The media: It'll produce a great story and lots of viewers.
2) President Obama: He'll get to hammer another point of "bad Republicans" home.
3) John Boehner Republicans: He'll be able to compromise with the Tea Party faction without spending so much political capital.
4) Ted Cruz Republicans: He gets to make his point.

So whats the end game for the Republicans now?

Lets assume that the Senate and Obama approve nothing but a clean CR.

What happens now?

Cedar Park Dad wrote:So whats the end game for the Republicans now?

Lets assume that the Senate and Obama approve nothing but a clean CR.

What happens now?

Appeal to Hispanics who are natural born Republicans because of our shared core family values. There is far more common ground than issues that divide us. Hispanics are taken for granted by the Democratic Party and so far they have had every reason to do so. We neither need nor want liberals or people who prefer to vote for a living rather than work for a living who make up the core of Democrat voters, other than Hispanics.

Chas.

The only thing worse than losing the fight to defund/kill ObamaCare would be losing the House to the Democrats, losing Republican-held Senate seats to the Democrats, and putting a Democrat in the White House.

Listening to real people, not the media, it sounds like the surest way for Republicans to lose seats is giving in to Obama.

bizarrenormality wrote:

The only thing worse than losing the fight to defund/kill ObamaCare would be losing the House to the Democrats, losing Republican-held Senate seats to the Democrats, and putting a Democrat in the White House.

Listening to real people, not the media, it sounds like the surest way for Republicans to lose seats is giving in to Obama.

You must have missed the 2012 election. Obama was reelected and the Democrats gained seats in both the House and Senate. Those "real people" you reference did that.

Chas.

If we start with the premise that politics is about persuasion, then we can look to Ronald Reagan as an example of a good politician who persuaded both Republicans and enough democrats to follow him with a program of tax cuts and smaller government. He inspired people, and put America first in his foreign policy. I think there are a lot of people who are looking for such a bold leader today. That's why there is so much disappointment among conservatives when it comes to the current leadership in the House and Senate. Not much inspiration there, not much articulation of conservative principles. Not much fight in them, but a whole lot of quit. In the name of being realistic, the Republican leadership cowers and defeats itself. I think that's why Ted Cruz was able to get elected in the Texas Republican primary in 2012, and why so many people support his current effort against Obamacare. It's tiresome to hear all the wise old Republicans opine as to why we cannot win. Fact is, there is an undercurrent of tremendous political power that showed itself in the 2010 elections, and which could rise again in 2014. Why did it not in 2012? Lots of guesses. But in 2012 the Republicans did not inspire. Romney did not articulate conservative principles. It may take the numerous abuses of the federal government (IRS scandal, Obamacare, NSA domestic spying, etc.) to rouse the troops in 2014. We'll see.

atticus wrote:It may take the numerous abuses of the federal government (IRS scandal, Obamacare, NSA domestic spying, etc.) to rouse the troops in 2014. We'll see.

Have you noticed that the propaganda arm of the democrat party (MSM) has been silent on those things for a while? A few blogs and one or two conservative leaning publications are not going to change anybody's mind....not when they are happening in an echo chamber. It requires, sadly, the legacy media to do their jobs, and they aren't willing to cooperate if it means a republican victory. The other day when that gal from the IRS resigned....BECAUSE of the IRS scandal....the NYT put the story on page 18, below the fold, in a column about people coming and going in government. For anybody who knows anything about newspaper publishing, BIG stories go on right hand pages, above the fold, up front (Page 3), or Front Page. They buried the story. So is everyone else. Kiss the IRS scandal goodbye as an issue to rouse the voters with.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

bizarrenormality wrote:

The only thing worse than losing the fight to defund/kill ObamaCare would be losing the House to the Democrats, losing Republican-held Senate seats to the Democrats, and putting a Democrat in the White House.

Listening to real people, not the media, it sounds like the surest way for Republicans to lose seats is giving in to Obama.

You must have missed the 2012 election. Obama was reelected and the Democrats gained seats in both the House and Senate. Those "real people" you reference did that.

Chas.

That's the "52%" that I referred to previously. As long as those people remain locked in their stupidity and shiftless avarice, the party's over, so to speak. And because they are stupid, shiftless, and greedy, they will never admit...even to themselves in private....that they made a mistake by voting for the charlatan in chief..........let alone their votes for petty charlatans. Their moral compass is broken, and every single vote they cast is decided on the basis of whether or not it will give them more free stuff in the near future. They are not long term thinkers, because long term thinking requires a belief in something bigger than immediate self-gratification.

That's bad news. But the worse news is that these people procreate, and make more people just like them, with the same grasping lack of higher values. No amount of "free education" will educate them to think anything different......not when that "free education" establishment is firmly in the camp of encouraging that fecklessness.

The proportion of stupid, shiftless, and greedy voters to thoughtful, industrious, and higher thinking voters is roughly 52% to 48% right now....give or take a fraction of a percentage point on either side. What will that ratio be in 10 years? 60% to 40%? 75% to 25%? One thing is obvious to me: it is a growing disparity, not a shrinking one.

For this reason, I firmly believe that we are past the tipping point. The tipping point, the finite fulcrum against which the lever of Obamacare was applied was the 2012 presidential election. That was the last point at which thinking people had an opportunity to resurrect the nation from a slide into irrelevance. Looking back, future historians (if there are any literate people left by then) will define Obamacare as the feather which broke the camel's back.

Really bad juju is comin'.

So much for the predicted stock market crash due the "government shutdown". Dow is UP 45 points so far. Maybe the government should have sent home the "nonessential" employees long ago.

mojo84 wrote:So much for the predicted stock market crash due the "government shutdown". Dow is UP 45 points so far. Maybe the government should have sent home the "nonessential" employees long ago.

Manufacturing reports came in with manufacturing at the highest level since early 2011. Sorry.

That is why I have a see to your own mentality right now. Washington is irrevocably broken. So the best my family can do is to try to make advancments that help us survive, come what may. The realm of possibilities of what could come are amazing and terrifying.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

mojo84 wrote:So much for the predicted stock market crash due the "government shutdown". Dow is UP 45 points so far. Maybe the government should have sent home the "nonessential" employees long ago.

Manufacturing reports came in with manufacturing at the highest level since early 2011. Sorry.

What are you sorry for, crying wolf? That is a great thing that many's doomsday predictions didn't come true. It goes to show the country can continue with less government.

If they are "nonessential" employees, why are they on the payroll in the first place?

Not many industries that I can think of that have over 3/4 of a million nonessential workers.

mojo84 wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

mojo84 wrote:So much for the predicted stock market crash due the "government shutdown". Dow is UP 45 points so far. Maybe the government should have sent home the "nonessential" employees long ago.

Manufacturing reports came in with manufacturing at the highest level since early 2011. Sorry.

What are you sorry for, crying wolf? That is a great thing that many's doomsday predictions didn't come true. It goes to show the country can continue with less government.

If they are "nonessential" employees, why are they on the payroll in the first place?

I'm sorry that the reason is not because of the shutdown but in spite of it.

Now this is all fun and games but if this entangles the debt ceiling issue and creates a default scenario then thats an excellent way to implode the economy ala Argentina. Countries that default on their debt take generations to recover, if ever.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

mojo84 wrote:So much for the predicted stock market crash due the "government shutdown". Dow is UP 45 points so far. Maybe the government should have sent home the "nonessential" employees long ago.

Manufacturing reports came in with manufacturing at the highest level since early 2011. Sorry.

What are you sorry for, crying wolf? That is a great thing that many's doomsday predictions didn't come true. It goes to show the country can continue with less government.

If they are "nonessential" employees, why are they on the payroll in the first place?

I'm sorry that the reason is not because of the shutdown but in spite of it.

Now this is all fun and games but if this entangles the debt ceiling issue and creates a default scenario then thats an excellent way to implode the economy ala Argentina. Countries that default on their debt take generations to recover, if ever.

Bottom line, the sky didn't fall and the sun still came up in spite of all the dire predictions.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

bdickens wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:Lots of Republicans get free stuff off the government too. Every government contract out there is someone's meal ticket.

Equating businesses that make money providing goods and services to the .gov with professional couch potatoes getting a paycheck (welfare) for doing nothing but sucking up other people's oxygen is just silly.

They both take money from me without consent and minimal color of law thank you.

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