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mojo84 wrote:

gringo pistolero wrote:Regardless of rank, if Texas taxpayers are spending in excess of $8,000 per student per year, we're getting ripped off. Looking at what passes for a high school graduate these days, most don't have a $100,000 education. Not even close.

I feel compelled to repost WildBill's original picture.

[ Image ]

It's silly to keep posting these broad generalities. I could also say fat old white men aren't the men like men used to be. That's a very broad statement and there are exceptions.

I have a high school graduate this year. I'd confidently put him up against any graduate from 50 or 100 years ago. Considering the academic and service scholarship offers he has received from universities from across this country, your generalization is way off base and the continued comments that all of today's graduates are imbeciles and dunces are quite offensive.


Let me ask those of you that think today's schools and students are so bad, how many of you took college courses during your high school years and graduated high school with almost 40 college credit hours?

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

gringo pistolero wrote:Regardless of rank, if Texas taxpayers are spending in excess of $8,000 per student per year, we're getting ripped off. Looking at what passes for a high school graduate these days, most don't have a $100,000 education. Not even close.

I feel compelled to repost WildBill's original picture.

[ Image ]

It's silly to keep posting these broad generalities. I could also say fat old white men aren't the men like men used to be. That's a very broad statement and there are exceptions.

I have a high school graduate this year. I'd confidently put him up against any graduate from 50 or 100 years ago. Considering the academic and service scholarship offers he has received from universities from across this country, your generalization is way off base and the continued comments that all of today's graduates are imbeciles and dunces are quite offensive.


Let me ask those of you that think today's schools and students are so bad, how many of you took college courses during your high school years and graduated high school with almost 40 college credit hours?

Careful Mojo, mine did the same. Instead of getting out of undergrad early, he added an additional major and minor.

MotherBear wrote:At a guess, "careful" meant you're not getting off the hook for a year or two of college tuition like you might hope if your kid graduates with lots of college credits.

MotherBear wrote:At a guess, "careful" meant you're not getting off the hook for a year or two of college tuition like you might hope if your kid graduates with lots of college credits.

cb1000rider wrote:

VMI77 wrote: I dropped out of IEEE because they represented management in importing engineers to reduce engineer salaries. But to me I'm not really talking about outsourcing but actual engineers either naturalized or here on a visa. And yes, I agree on the problem solving and creativity.....Richard P. Feynman talked about teaching in Latin America, and how the students just memorized everything and didn't understand it.

cb1000rider wrote:If you're comparing naturalized engineers to engineers that are here on visa, that comparison isn't fair. The engineers with visas usually have sponsor employers and employers can be very picky about who they select from overseas. That is, you're comparing naturalized engineers to a very select group that got visas. I know great H1B engineers also, but I really don't think that the educational systems that they came from are necessarily better than ours.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

cb1000rider wrote:Part of why the US has had economic success (relative to other countries) is we have a high degree of educated people here. I don't attribute that education to a public school system, but it's part of an educational chain. And that chain needs to adapt and get better. We're already losing in Math and Science compared to other countries and long term, it will disadvantage us.

Sorry, you're just wrong. Apparently you don't work in a technical field with either scientists or engineers. I know and work with lots of Phd engineers and exactly one is American born. All the rest are from India, Pakistan, China, or the Middle East. We have a lot of people with easy to obtain and meaningless college degrees but that translates into ego enhancement, not educated people. We have to import Phds in the technical fields. And all the evidence shows a steady decline in educational quality across the board over the last 50 years. I've dealt with engineers from Mexico, educated in Mexico, that were far far better educated across the board, and even spoke better English, than most American college graduates I've me. I've met many people with college degrees, but very few of them are educated in any meaningful sense of the word.....particularly if they were liberal arts majors. When my son was attending UT he had story after story of how stupid his fellow students were, and UT should have the top 10% from Texas high schools.

Our economic success, which is soon about to end, is almost entirely the product of the fact that the dollar is the world's reserve currency. If it wasn't, we would already have had a major economic collapse.

We don't have an educated populace, we have a populace cheated out of an education, and deluded into believing that indoctrination constitutes education. Yes, the best and brightest always find a way, and they may well be better educated than ever, but that's irrelevant to this conversation. That has been and always will be the case in any system.

We didn't build 9,000 warheads, the greatest military in the history of mankind and be the only ones sending humans to the moon relying on imported PHDs from Mexico.

VMI77 wrote:

cb1000rider wrote:

VMI77 wrote: I dropped out of IEEE because they represented management in importing engineers to reduce engineer salaries. But to me I'm not really talking about outsourcing but actual engineers either naturalized or here on a visa. And yes, I agree on the problem solving and creativity.....Richard P. Feynman talked about teaching in Latin America, and how the students just memorized everything and didn't understand it.

cb1000rider wrote:If you're comparing naturalized engineers to engineers that are here on visa, that comparison isn't fair. The engineers with visas usually have sponsor employers and employers can be very picky about who they select from overseas. That is, you're comparing naturalized engineers to a very select group that got visas. I know great H1B engineers also, but I really don't think that the educational systems that they came from are necessarily better than ours.

I'm not sure it makes all that much difference. One of my best friends in my previous employment was an engineer from Lebanon. He had a masters degree and quit to pursue a Phd. His brother was also in the US getting a masters at Dartmouth. His brother went back to Lebanon because he saw himself and others like him being exploited as cheap labor....as all of them made substantially less than their American counterparts. But even if they were paid equally, the overall effect of importing lots of engineers from other countries is three fold: it suppresses salaries for all engineers, it reduces the appeal of engineering as a career for Americans (due to the lowered salaries), and it reduces the incentive for American engineers to pursue post-graduate education.

WildBill wrote:There are some who suggest that we have a shortage of engineers, but I don't believe that. What we have is a shortage of engineers who will work for salaries much lower than the going rate for a qualified engineer.

WildBill wrote: There are some who suggest that we have a shortage of engineers, but I don't believe that. What we have is a shortage of engineers who will work for salaries much lower than the going rate for a qualified engineer. Some of the PhDs get jobs in academia and bring in more foreign students into their graduate programs and the cycle continues. This is nothing new. It's been going on for decades..

cb1000rider wrote: I can't speak to all Engineering. And I can't speak to PhDs.
I can speak to engineering technology. I don't see salary compression due to H1Bs or imported engineers.
TAMU data:
4-year bull degree, computer science, average salary is $65k.
4-year bull degree, computer engineering, average salary is $71k.
4-year bull degree, electrical engineering, average salary is $74k
4-year bull degree, petroleum engineering, average salary is $91k

mojo84 wrote:What are you folks in Allen doing to address this?

$60,000,000 high school stadium that just opened this season had to be closed due to possible construction defects.


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