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It appears to me if they know someone has a gun, then they will be held responsible if the gun is there illegally.

I refuse to believe that Walmart manager's are going to carry this out - please let me know if we see a memo from Walmart.com, not these other websites. Or if someone is actually asked for their LTC by Walmart employees.

To date, I have not heard of one instance of a carrier being asked for LTC at Walmart, which makes me believe that the information being thrown around is speculation and not from Walmart at all.

mojo84 wrote:For those of you that think it is a copout, excuse or up to the TABC agent's attitude or mood, here is the response to my direct email inquiry to TABC. I hope you find this post edifying.

Hello Mojo84,
 
Under Sections 11.61(e) and 61.71(f) of the Alcoholic Beverage Code, TABC is required to begin permit/license cancellation proceedings if it is discovered an unlicensed handgun was brought onto the premises of a licensed/permitted business. This being the case, retailers should make arrangements to verify the License to Carry of anyone who possesses a handgun on their premises. Ultimately, how each business chooses to fulfil this requirement is up to them, but TABC is required by law to begin cancellation proceedings if a violation is found.

Notice it says they are required to begin permit/license cancellation proceedings if it is discovered and unlicensed handgun was brought into the premises.

No it does not say that. Here is what it says:


11.61(e) Except as provided by Subsection (f) or (i), the commission or administrator shall cancel an original or renewal permit if it is found, after notice and hearing, that the permittee knowingly allowed a person to possess a firearm in a building on the licensed premises.

61.7(f) Except as provided by Subsection (g) or (j), the commission or administrator shall cancel an original or renewal dealer's on-premises or off-premises license if it is found, after notice and hearing, that the licensee knowingly allowed a person to possess a firearm in a building on the licensed premises.

Huge difference between knowingly allowing something and not.

Solaris wrote:

mojo84 wrote:For those of you that think it is a copout, excuse or up to the TABC agent's attitude or mood, here is the response to my direct email inquiry to TABC. I hope you find this post edifying.

Hello Mojo84,
 
Under Sections 11.61(e) and 61.71(f) of the Alcoholic Beverage Code, TABC is required to begin permit/license cancellation proceedings if it is discovered an unlicensed handgun was brought onto the premises of a licensed/permitted business. This being the case, retailers should make arrangements to verify the License to Carry of anyone who possesses a handgun on their premises. Ultimately, how each business chooses to fulfil this requirement is up to them, but TABC is required by law to begin cancellation proceedings if a violation is found.

Notice it says they are required to begin permit/license cancellation proceedings if it is discovered and unlicensed handgun was brought into the premises.

No it does not say that. Here is what it says:


11.61(e) Except as provided by Subsection (f) or (i), the commission or administrator shall cancel an original or renewal permit if it is found, after notice and hearing, that the permittee knowingly allowed a person to possess a firearm in a building on the licensed premises.

61.7(f) Except as provided by Subsection (g) or (j), the commission or administrator shall cancel an original or renewal dealer's on-premises or off-premises license if it is found, after notice and hearing, that the licensee knowingly allowed a person to possess a firearm in a building on the licensed premises.

Huge difference between knowingly allowing something and not.

Can you expound upon your post as I am having trouble getting your point?

locke_n_load wrote:I refuse to believe that Walmart manager's are going to carry this out - please let me know if we see a memo from Walmart.com, not these other websites. Or if someone is actually asked for their LTC by Walmart employees.

To date, I have not heard of one instance of a carrier being asked for LTC at Walmart, which makes me believe that the information being thrown around is speculation and not from Walmart at all.

Keep in mind, not all LTC holders post on here. Just because you haven't heard of it happening doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Do you really think a corporate Wal-Mart manager would go on record with a reporter if it wasn't true company policy?

mojo84 wrote:

Solaris wrote:

mojo84 wrote:For those of you that think it is a copout, excuse or up to the TABC agent's attitude or mood, here is the response to my direct email inquiry to TABC. I hope you find this post edifying.

Hello Mojo84,
 
Under Sections 11.61(e) and 61.71(f) of the Alcoholic Beverage Code, TABC is required to begin permit/license cancellation proceedings if it is discovered an unlicensed handgun was brought onto the premises of a licensed/permitted business. This being the case, retailers should make arrangements to verify the License to Carry of anyone who possesses a handgun on their premises. Ultimately, how each business chooses to fulfil this requirement is up to them, but TABC is required by law to begin cancellation proceedings if a violation is found.

Notice it says they are required to begin permit/license cancellation proceedings if it is discovered and unlicensed handgun was brought into the premises.

No it does not say that. Here is what it says:


11.61(e) Except as provided by Subsection (f) or (i), the commission or administrator shall cancel an original or renewal permit if it is found, after notice and hearing, that the permittee knowingly allowed a person to possess a firearm in a building on the licensed premises.

61.7(f) Except as provided by Subsection (g) or (j), the commission or administrator shall cancel an original or renewal dealer's on-premises or off-premises license if it is found, after notice and hearing, that the licensee knowingly allowed a person to possess a firearm in a building on the licensed premises.

Huge difference between knowingly allowing something and not.

Can you expound upon your post as I am having trouble getting your point?

If what TABC guy said was true, WalMart would need Metal Detectors to prevent people from coming in with unlicensed guns. But what he said was not true. They have to knowingly allow it. So folks coming in without their knowledge are not a problem.

He is also WRONG when he writes " unlicensed handgun" as the law he quoted clear says "firearm". So much fail on his part in such a short email to you.

If hwat he said was true, seems like a good way to get rid of competitors. Sneak a firearm in, take pic, send it this TABC guy. Apparently he thinks "TABC is required by law to begin cancellation proceedings if a violation is found." LOL.

Solaris wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

Solaris wrote:

mojo84 wrote:For those of you that think it is a copout, excuse or up to the TABC agent's attitude or mood, here is the response to my direct email inquiry to TABC. I hope you find this post edifying.

Hello Mojo84,
 
Under Sections 11.61(e) and 61.71(f) of the Alcoholic Beverage Code, TABC is required to begin permit/license cancellation proceedings if it is discovered an unlicensed handgun was brought onto the premises of a licensed/permitted business. This being the case, retailers should make arrangements to verify the License to Carry of anyone who possesses a handgun on their premises. Ultimately, how each business chooses to fulfil this requirement is up to them, but TABC is required by law to begin cancellation proceedings if a violation is found.

Notice it says they are required to begin permit/license cancellation proceedings if it is discovered and unlicensed handgun was brought into the premises.

No it does not say that. Here is what it says:


11.61(e) Except as provided by Subsection (f) or (i), the commission or administrator shall cancel an original or renewal permit if it is found, after notice and hearing, that the permittee knowingly allowed a person to possess a firearm in a building on the licensed premises.

61.7(f) Except as provided by Subsection (g) or (j), the commission or administrator shall cancel an original or renewal dealer's on-premises or off-premises license if it is found, after notice and hearing, that the licensee knowingly allowed a person to possess a firearm in a building on the licensed premises.

Huge difference between knowingly allowing something and not.

Can you expound upon your post as I am having trouble getting your point?

If what TABC guy said was true, WalMart would need Metal Detectors to prevent people from coming in with unlicensed guns. But what he said was not true. They have to knowingly allow it. So folks coming in without their knowledge are not a problem.

The entire premise of my question to them was based upon open carry. If one is open carrying, it stands to reason they will know. You are the only one that has tried to construe this to include concealed carry.

Context matters and we are talking in the context of open carry.

mojo84 wrote:
The entire premise of my question to them was based upon open carry. If one is open carrying, it stands to reason they will know. You are the only one that has tried to construe this to include concealed carry.

Context matters and we are talking in the context of open carry.

Nowhere did I say concealed carry. I wrote "unlicensed guns" Context matters, but reading is fundamental too.

In my decades of OC in other states, most people do not know. So far this year no one at my WalMart has noticed either. Going there again right now, so we will see.

JP171 wrote: mojo I understand that but it still makes me grind my teeth to hear all the people here defending them when the general timbre here hasa always been the only people that you have to show to are police.

True, but keep in mind that most if not all of those discussion took place before OC became effective. Since 1.1.16, the circumstances are considerably different.

Solaris wrote:

mojo84 wrote:
The entire premise of my question to them was based upon open carry. If one is open carrying, it stands to reason they will know. You are the only one that has tried to construe this to include concealed carry.

Context matters and we are talking in the context of open carry.

Nowhere did I say concealed carry. I wrote "unlicensed guns" Context matters, but reading is fundamental too.

In my decades of OC in other states, most people do not know. So far this year no one at my WalMart has noticed either. Going there again right now, so we will see.

Nice try. Why would they need metal detectors for openly carried guns? The fact you said they would need metal detectors specifically implies concealed carry of handguns.

Maybe instead of jumping to insults such as you did with your "reading is fundamental" comment, ... (never mind, your comment speaks for itself).

mojo84 wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:I refuse to believe that Walmart manager's are going to carry this out - please let me know if we see a memo from Walmart.com, not these other websites. Or if someone is actually asked for their LTC by Walmart employees.

To date, I have not heard of one instance of a carrier being asked for LTC at Walmart, which makes me believe that the information being thrown around is speculation and not from Walmart at all.

Keep in mind, not all LTC holders post on here. Just because you haven't heard of it happening doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Do you really think a corporate Wal-Mart manager would go on record with a reporter if it wasn't true company policy?

I keep track of everyone here and at texasguntalk.com, and I bet that that covers a decent portion of people OCing in Texas. I think twice before I believe anything from bloomberg.com, which is where the original article is from.

EDIT: I see that the bloomberg point was made on the previous page.
Also, TABC rules for firearms need to be legislated out. It should not matter if an establishment sells alcohol and those locations should be treated the same as any other business.

mojo84 wrote:

Solaris wrote:

mojo84 wrote:
The entire premise of my question to them was based upon open carry. If one is open carrying, it stands to reason they will know. You are the only one that has tried to construe this to include concealed carry.

Context matters and we are talking in the context of open carry.

Nowhere did I say concealed carry. I wrote "unlicensed guns" Context matters, but reading is fundamental too.

In my decades of OC in other states, most people do not know. So far this year no one at my WalMart has noticed either. Going there again right now, so we will see.

Nice try. Why would they need metal detectors for openly carried guns? The fact you said they would need metal detectors specifically implies concealed carry of handguns.

Not trying to outsmart anybody here but as soon as you have a metal detector you should need a guard as well to search for weapons carried illegally and eliminate false positives of detecting jewelry, keys, ...
In other words, I don't think Walmart would add that level of security.

bmwrdr wrote:Not trying to outsmart anybody here but as soon as you have a metal detector you should need a guard as well to search for weapons carried illegally and eliminate false positives of detecting jewelry, keys, ...
In other words, I don't think Walmart would add that level of security.

Ugh, can you imagine the headache that would be on Black Friday?

bmwrdr wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

Solaris wrote:

mojo84 wrote:
The entire premise of my question to them was based upon open carry. If one is open carrying, it stands to reason they will know. You are the only one that has tried to construe this to include concealed carry.

Context matters and we are talking in the context of open carry.

Nowhere did I say concealed carry. I wrote "unlicensed guns" Context matters, but reading is fundamental too.

In my decades of OC in other states, most people do not know. So far this year no one at my WalMart has noticed either. Going there again right now, so we will see.

Nice try. Why would they need metal detectors for openly carried guns? The fact you said they would need metal detectors specifically implies concealed carry of handguns.

Not trying to outsmart anybody here but as soon as you have a metal detector you should need a guard as well to search for weapons carried illegally and eliminate false positives of detecting jewelry, keys, ...
In other words, I don't think Walmart would add that level of security.

It was a ridiculous comment made by someone that is just trying to argue.

mojo84 wrote:
Nice try. Why would they need metal detectors for openly carried guns? The fact you said they would need metal detectors specifically implies concealed carry of handguns..

No you need them specifically to find guns open or concealed. i just OC'd to Walmart, they did not notice an obvious Glock on my belt. OMG they are going to lose their license now. My bad.

And I found another ERROR in that email. Holy cow that guy is wrong on just about everything he wrote.

"if it is discovered an unlicensed handgun was brought onto the premises"

See it? yeah ALL handguns are unlicensed in Texas.