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Cedar Park Dad wrote: Countries that default on their debt take generations to recover, if ever.

Unless they have the military might of the United States. "Those with the guns make the rules" is a truism, like it or not, and I happen to love it.

Chas.

Don't know about y'all, but I feel pretty good today.
It's as if some oppressive weight has been (temporarily) lifted off my shoulders.

If anyone here is a .gov employee on temporary furlough, you have my sympathies. Hang in there.

Now... about that end-game....

Cedar Park Dad wrote:. . . but if this entangles the debt ceiling issue and creates a default scenario then thats an excellent way to implode the economy ala Argentina.

The debt ceiling is far different from Obamacare. The Republicans absolutely should hold the line and force the Democrats to reduce spending. This is an issue that far more people on both sides of the isle are concerned about and it's a loser for Obama and the Democratic Party.

Chas.

At some point the country is going to face a day of reckoning when it comes to our debt. Is is better to man up and take care of it now or leave it for our kids and grandkids to deal with it?

mojo84 wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

mojo84 wrote:So much for the predicted stock market crash due the "government shutdown". Dow is UP 45 points so far. Maybe the government should have sent home the "nonessential" employees long ago.

Manufacturing reports came in with manufacturing at the highest level since early 2011. Sorry.

What are you sorry for, crying wolf? That is a great thing that many's doomsday predictions didn't come true. It goes to show the country can continue with less government.

If they are "nonessential" employees, why are they on the payroll in the first place?

I'm sorry that the reason is not because of the shutdown but in spite of it.

Now this is all fun and games but if this entangles the debt ceiling issue and creates a default scenario then thats an excellent way to implode the economy ala Argentina. Countries that default on their debt take generations to recover, if ever.

Bottom line, the sky didn't fall and the sun still came up in spite of all the dire predictions.

Agreed. Somehow despite the MsM prediction of torandoes, hurricanes, no power, cats and dogs living together, I was still able to make some nice coffee this morning, and may make it long enough to have a last meal of TexMex for lunch before the world cracks in two.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote: Countries that default on their debt take generations to recover, if ever.

Unless they have the military might of the United States. "Those with the guns make the rules" is a truism, like it or not, and I happen to love it.

Chas.

No actually. If you default on the debt your economy crashes, utterly and completely. Military is irrelevant. Enjoy the toys though, because there won't be any more stealth fighters coming off the assembly lines in the US for a couple of decades if you default.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:. . . but if this entangles the debt ceiling issue and creates a default scenario then thats an excellent way to implode the economy ala Argentina.

The debt ceiling is far different from Obamacare. The Republicans absolutely should hold the line and force the Democrats to reduce spending. This is an issue that far more people on both sides of the isle are concerned about and it's a loser for Obama and the Democratic Party.

Chas.

You can hold the line on spending, but if you default on the debt everything gets hammered. Thats reality and history. Other countries have made that mistake and failed as a result. Further, if we implode the rest of the world gets hammered to.

mojo84 wrote:At some point the country is going to face a day of reckoning when it comes to our debt. Is is better to man up and take care of it now or leave it for our kids and grandkids to deal with it?

Define man up and take care of it.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote: Countries that default on their debt take generations to recover, if ever.

Unless they have the military might of the United States. "Those with the guns make the rules" is a truism, like it or not, and I happen to love it.

Chas.

No actually. If you default on the debt your economy crashes, utterly and completely. Military is irrelevant. Enjoy the toys though, because there won't be any more stealth fighters coming off the assembly lines in the US for a couple of decades if you default.

Yes, actually. The debt default will be on foreign debt first and that will be sufficient to shore up the U.S. economy. There is nothing that the U.S. needs that we don't have or cannot take. I know as a "moderate Democrat" you don't like hearing that, but that's a fact.

Chas.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

mojo84 wrote:At some point the country is going to face a day of reckoning when it comes to our debt. Is is better to man up and take care of it now or leave it for our kids and grandkids to deal with it?

Define man up and take care of it.

You asking that question is very telling.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:. . . but if this entangles the debt ceiling issue and creates a default scenario then thats an excellent way to implode the economy ala Argentina.

The debt ceiling is far different from Obamacare. The Republicans absolutely should hold the line and force the Democrats to reduce spending. This is an issue that far more people on both sides of the isle are concerned about and it's a loser for Obama and the Democratic Party.
Chas.

You can hold the line on spending, but if you default on the debt everything gets hammered. Thats reality and history. Other countries have made that mistake and failed as a result. Further, if we implode the rest of the world gets hammered to.

I didn't say hold the line on spending, I said "Republicans absolutely hold the line and force the Democrats to REDUCE SPENDING." I'm not the least bit interested in maintaining current spending levels, I want them slashed starting with and focusing primarily on the very programs that have made the Democratic Party the darling those who look to the government for everything. No funding of any programs from the Social Security fund, other than retirement benefits and Medicare. No benefits for illegal aliens, no free public schooling for illegals; slash the federal workforce across the board.


The reality that you continue to ignore is that foreign debt will be the first to be disavowed/defaulted and that will be sufficient. Will that cause worldwide repercussions? Sure! But other than Israel, I don't care what happens to other countries. That's also why the old adage guns and rules is so accurate. Your solution is to raise the debt ceiling and continue with the status quo. That will bring about the precise conclusion you predict, only slightly further down the calendar.

Chas.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:. . . but if this entangles the debt ceiling issue and creates a default scenario then thats an excellent way to implode the economy ala Argentina.

The debt ceiling is far different from Obamacare. The Republicans absolutely should hold the line and force the Democrats to reduce spending. This is an issue that far more people on both sides of the isle are concerned about and it's a loser for Obama and the Democratic Party.

Chas.

You can hold the line on spending, but if you default on the debt everything gets hammered. Thats reality and history. Other countries have made that mistake and failed as a result. Further, if we implode the rest of the world gets hammered to.

From Wikipedia:
"US government indebtedness has been the norm in the financial history of the nation. The carriage of debt in Western Europe and North America by governments has been normal for the past 200 years, so the US situation is not unique.
The US has been in debt every year except for 1835.
Debts incurred during the American Revolutionary War and under the Articles of Confederation led to the first yearly report on the amount of the debt ($75,463,476.52 on January 1, 1791).
Every President since Herbert Hoover has added to the national debt expressed in absolute dollars. The debt ceiling has been raised 74 times since March 1962,including 18 times under Ronald Reagan, eight times under Bill Clinton, seven times under George W. Bush, and three times under Barack Obama."

It is all a sham. The amount of debt is out of control, but the Congress WILL raise the debt ceiling. It is a game we play every few months. We are not going to "default" the congress-critters will preen and posture, the MSM will play it up, and in the end they will raise the debt ceiling a few months worth, they will pass a Continuing Resolution, Obamacare will rock on, and in a few months we will do it all again.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote: Countries that default on their debt take generations to recover, if ever.

Unless they have the military might of the United States. "Those with the guns make the rules" is a truism, like it or not, and I happen to love it.

Chas.

No actually. If you default on the debt your economy crashes, utterly and completely. Military is irrelevant. Enjoy the toys though, because there won't be any more stealth fighters coming off the assembly lines in the US for a couple of decades if you default.

Yes, actually. The debt default will be on foreign debt first and that will be sufficient to shore up the U.S. economy. There is nothing that the U.S. needs that we don't have or cannot take. I know as a "moderate Democrat" you don't like hearing that, but that's a fact.

Chas.

Thats not how it works. There is no debt marked "foreign owned debt, default on them first." Default on one issuance and the remainder will lose value quickly, and it will spiral. Want to borrow more debt? Be prepared to pay multiple digit interest.
Everyone who owns bonds will watch the value of those bonds plummet. Municipal and state bonds would also be hit hard, including the ability to reborrow.

Further, if its a hard snap this could trigger a liquidity crisis not only in the government but in the banking sector in similar fashion to 2008.

Again this isn't speculation. This is history. And there's no reason for it. Most people can balance their books without going bankrupt.

mojo84 wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

mojo84 wrote:At some point the country is going to face a day of reckoning when it comes to our debt. Is is better to man up and take care of it now or leave it for our kids and grandkids to deal with it?

Define man up and take care of it.

You asking that question is very telling.

Defaulting on the debt is not "manning up" it is going bankrupt.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:. . . but if this entangles the debt ceiling issue and creates a default scenario then thats an excellent way to implode the economy ala Argentina.

The debt ceiling is far different from Obamacare. The Republicans absolutely should hold the line and force the Democrats to reduce spending. This is an issue that far more people on both sides of the isle are concerned about and it's a loser for Obama and the Democratic Party.
Chas.

You can hold the line on spending, but if you default on the debt everything gets hammered. Thats reality and history. Other countries have made that mistake and failed as a result. Further, if we implode the rest of the world gets hammered to.

I didn't say hold the line on spending, I said "Republicans absolutely hold the line and force the Democrats to REDUCE SPENDING." I'm not the least bit interested in maintaining current spending levels, I want them slashed starting with and focusing primarily on the very programs that have made the Democratic Party the darling those who look to the government for everything. No funding of any programs from the Social Security fund, other than retirement benefits and Medicare. No benefits for illegal aliens, no free public schooling for illegals; slash the federal workforce across the board.


The reality that you continue to ignore is that foreign debt will be the first to be disavowed/defaulted and that will be sufficient. Will that cause worldwide repercussions? Sure! But other than Israel, I don't care what happens to other countries. That's also why the old adage guns and rules is so accurate. Your solution is to raise the debt ceiling and continue with the status quo. That will bring about the precise conclusion you predict, only slightly further down the calendar.

Chas.

Amen!