Scenario time!

[45 4 life]

This could and probably has happened, however it is very rare. Whether or not a DA would touch this type of case based on the knowledge of how no knock warrants are supposed to be served is another question. There is background work that is to be performed before serving a warrant of this nature. Positive I/D of the perps residence or place of business is at the top of the list. Very seldom will a no knock warrant be served as a spur of the moment action.

I feel like the only response a law abiding home owner would have at hand is to open fire and cover.

[Keith B]

Or they could just shoot you dead and plant some drugs on your property. Cased Closed...they got their man.

Not unless they can change your identity to match the name on the warrant.

[HankB]

The prosecutor is going to make two assumptions: (1) that the actions of the police were not unlawful, and (2) that the homeowner knew or should have known that they were police.

For the jury to convict on (1) they will have to acknowledge that the police can kick THEIR door in any time they want, even if they only have a warrant for the bad guy down the street. (2) a homeowner with no ties to crime would have no reason to assume that unidentifiable, MASKED MEN WITH GUNS were police officers serving a lawful warrant ON HIM. Particularly if his lawyer can show news stories (TV news, newspapers, etc.) the homeowner might have seen that fake police have been invading homes - this won't be hard to do in Texas.

Though it may not be relevant to TX law, here's a link to a case that got a lot of publicity when I was still living up in Minnesota:

http://www.mpdfederation.com/david-mack.asp

Sad result for the officers involved, and I seem to recall later stories that the homeowner wasn't exactly a choir boy, but the point is after shooting two cops who broke into his home he never spent a day in jail.

In the scenario here, I can see the DA deciding on a vigorous prosecution, even if he has little or no chance of winning, just to "punish" the homeowner by bankrupting him through legal fees.

[txmatt]

The prosecutor is going to make two assumptions: (1) that the actions of the police were not unlawful, and (2) that the homeowner knew or should have known that they were police.

For the jury to convict on (1) they will have to acknowledge that the police can kick THEIR door in any time they want, even if they only have a warrant for the bad guy down the street. (2) a homeowner with no ties to crime would have no reason to assume that unidentifiable, MASKED MEN WITH GUNS were police officers serving a lawful warrant ON HIM. Particularly if his lawyer can show news stories (TV news, newspapers, etc.) the homeowner might have seen that fake police have been invading homes - this won't be hard to do in Texas.

Though it may not be relevant to TX law, here's a link to a case that got a lot of publicity when I was still living up in Minnesota:

http://www.mpdfederation.com/david-mack.asp

Sad result for the officers involved, and I seem to recall later stories that the homeowner wasn't exactly a choir boy, but the point is after shooting two cops who broke into his home he never spent a day in jail.

In the scenario here, I can see the DA deciding on a vigorous prosecution, even if he has little or no chance of winning, just to "punish" the homeowner by bankrupting him through legal fees.

Yeah, and Cory Maye is still in jail, though he did get the death sentence overturned. The outcome of a scenario like the one in this thread could well go either way. I know we would all like to think that this could never happen and that if it did we would not end up in jail for defending ourselves, but this is not the case.

[seamusTX]

For the jury to convict on (1) they will have to acknowledge that the police can kick THEIR door in any time they want,

This requires a level of empathy that is not universal, not even common, and not to be relied upon when your life and liberty are in danger.

There's a competing impulse to blame the victim. If we believe that the victim was responsible for his fate, we can deceive ourselves into believing that we do not have the same fault.

Look at this map: http://www.cato.org/raidmap/. Select "Death or injury of a police officer," and see how many people have been convicted for shooting police in botched raids. You can also see a few attempted cover-ups with questionable evidence.

In the scenario here, I can see the DA deciding on a vigorous prosecution, even if he has little or no chance of winning, just to "punish" the homeowner by bankrupting him through legal fees.

That is a real consideration. It is small comfort to be found not guilty when you have been bankrupted by legal bills, lost your job, and had your reputation slashed by the media and gossip.

- Jim

[HighVelocity]

Back to the original posting... If you're UPSTAIRS and hear a noise that sounded like it came from the front yard, wouldn't you LOOK OUT AN UPSTAIRS WINDOW before charging down the stairs? If it's a police raid, I'd bet you could see some indicator of that from the window.

There's really no excuse for the police to "get the wrong house". It's negligence on behalf of the team leaders.

[jbirds1210]

There's really no excuse for the police to "get the wrong house". It's negligence on behalf of the team leaders.

I had to fill out the location description portion of a search warrant a couple of weeks ago. It was 1 1/2 pages long and required everything short of a pencil sketch!

Jason

[Briankey]

I would say NO on Charges, especially due to very bad Intelligence on the Police's part, and getting the wrong house in the first place.

Brian
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So, thought about this. Would like to get you all's input.

- It's 3 in the morning, and you are woken up by noise outside that sounds like it's coming from the front yard. You grab your handgun off your nightstand and go down stairs to investigate. You are about all the way down when your front door comes flying open and several masked men come barging in yelling "POLICE!", barking orders, and pointing guns and lights at you. You are completely taken off guard (remember, you just woke up), and as such you don't exactly comprehend them saying "police". You have no idea why they are here as they shouldn't be. You open fire and manage to hit two of them before you are shot in the leg with a rifle round and taken down.

After the smoke clears it turns out it was a police drug raid that was actually meant for the house behind yours on the next street. You both share the same house number.

The two policemen you shot die at the scene.


The million dollar question: Would you be charged with murder?

[seamusTX]

I would say NO on Charges, especially due to very bad Intelligence on the Police's part, and getting the wrong house in the first place.

Did you look at this? Look at this map: http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

Botched raids are rare, but when the homeowner tries to defend himself, charges are the rule. Even when the defender is dead, other people in the home are sometimes charged.

- Jim

[Briankey]

No sir, I'm limited on what I can do with this Blackberry Phone, will be getting a computer soon.
Maybe you can tell me about what the Map is about?.

Take Care
Brian

[seamusTX]

The map from the Cato Institute (which, whatever it is, is not liberal) shows the location of every botched police raid in the U.S. for about the last 23 years. It's pretty shocking how many have occurred. Then you can select incidents in which a police officer was killed, innocent person was killed, and other categories.

There are 20 documented cases where the residents in a home that was mistakenly raided killed officers. Nearly all these people were prosecuted, and many were found guilty. A couple are currently on death row.

There are also two cases in which officers killed other officers.

- Jim

[boomerang]

The million dollar question: Would you be charged with murder?

What county am I in?

[Briankey]

Well, I think if the cops hit the wrong house, shame on them, that's there mistake, and homeowners should not be Prosecuted, if they hadn't gotten the wrong house, those cops wouldn't be dead. They don't have a Warrant for the wrong house.
Also, would seem there would be some Liability on the Police Department for Illegal entry if they bash their way into the wrong house?. No Warrant, no justifiable reason to be there. Breaking and entering to me. Their title as Police officers is not an excuse.
--------------

The map from the Cato Institute (which, whatever it is, is not liberal) shows the location of every botched police raid in the U.S. for about the last 23 years. It's pretty shocking how many have occurred. Then you can select incidents in which a police officer was killed, innocent person was killed, and other categories.

There are 20 documented cases where the residents in a home that was mistakenly raided killed officers. Nearly all these people were prosecuted, and many were found guilty. A couple are currently on death row.

There are also two cases in which officers killed other officers.

- Jim

[seamusTX]

Well, I think if the cops hit the wrong house, shame on them, that's there mistake, and homeowners should not be Prosecuted, if they hadn't gotten the wrong house, those cops wouldn't be dead. They don't have a Warrant for the wrong house.

I agree with you on the "should," but experience shows that the homeowner is likely to be prosecuted (if he lives) and often convicted.

Also, would seem there would be some Liability on the Police Department for Illegal entry if they bash their way into the wrong house?.

Yes, and that helps explain why the homeowners or residents are prosecuted. If they are found guilty of a crime, they can't sue.

- Jim

[Briankey]

Well Jim, I see your point, and that sounds like some corruption to me, cops aren't held accountable for the actions.
---------------,
If they are found guilty of a crime, they can't sue.

- Jim[/quote]