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bryang wrote:This is the thing that really gets my goat about elections. They drag people in from anywhere by the bus loads and sign them up and take them to the polls and tell them where to put the x. They have no idea of what they are doing...they have been told what to do and they do it!

Yep. This is one reason the framers decided that only land owners could vote, and each household got only one vote. You had to demonstrate a certain kind of responsibility before voting. We were probably a little better off back then due to that policy.

TheArmedFarmer wrote:

bryang wrote:This is the thing that really gets my goat about elections. They drag people in from anywhere by the bus loads and sign them up and take them to the polls and tell them where to put the x. They have no idea of what they are doing...they have been told what to do and they do it!

Yep. This is one reason the framers decided that only land owners could vote, and each household got only one vote. You had to demonstrate a certain kind of responsibility before voting. We were probably a little better off back then due to that policy.

Certain landowners were. I don't believe most black folks liked the system much in those days. I personally find the idea that only property owners are responsible was pretty silly. I just wish the ignorant were smart enough to understand they don't know enough to vote.

Liberty wrote:

TheArmedFarmer wrote:

bryang wrote:This is the thing that really gets my goat about elections. They drag people in from anywhere by the bus loads and sign them up and take them to the polls and tell them where to put the x. They have no idea of what they are doing...they have been told what to do and they do it!

Yep. This is one reason the framers decided that only land owners could vote, and each household got only one vote. You had to demonstrate a certain kind of responsibility before voting. We were probably a little better off back then due to that policy.

Certain landowners were. I don't believe most black folks liked the system much in those days. I personally find the idea that only property owners are responsible was pretty silly. I just wish the ignorant were smart enough to understand they don't know enough to vote.

As a homeowner, I get to pay property taxes so non-property owners (red and yellow, black/brown and white...renters) can send their kids to schools that my kids or grandkids have never, nor will ever attend. Nowadays, the above non-property owners also get to vote. BTW, I've seen no sign of a forthcoming credit/refund, etc. for making my payments and finally paying off our modest house.

Is this a great country or what?

Oldgringo wrote: As a homeowner, I get to pay property taxes so non-property owners (red and yellow, black/brown and white...renters) can send their kids to schools that my kids or grandkids have never, nor will ever attend. Nowadays, the above non-property owners also get to vote. BTW, I've seen no sign of a forthcoming credit/refund, etc. for making my payments and finally paying off our modest house.

Is this a great country or what?

Renters pay property taxes, just not directly. Apartment owners are the ones paying the property taxes and the cost is just passed on to the renters in their monthly payments.

Oldgringo wrote:

Liberty wrote:

TheArmedFarmer wrote:
Yep. This is one reason the framers decided that only land owners could vote, and each household got only one vote. You had to demonstrate a certain kind of responsibility before voting. We were probably a little better off back then due to that policy.

Certain landowners were. I don't believe most black folks liked the system much in those days. I personally find the idea that only property owners are responsible was pretty silly. I just wish the ignorant were smart enough to understand they don't know enough to vote.

As a homeowner, I get to pay property taxes so non-property owners (red and yellow, black/brown and white...renters) can send their kids to schools that my kids or grandkids have never, nor will ever attend. Nowadays, the above non-property owners also get to vote. BTW, I've seen no sign of a forthcoming credit/refund, etc. for making my payments and finally paying off our modest house.

Is this a great country or what?

I pay rent on a place that is substantantial portion of goes to pay taxes. And own a soggy home that I must pay taxes on. At least on the home I own I get a homesteaders break and a opportunity to freeze the taxes when I turn 65. I get to deduct the property taxes on my home. Renters don't get these breaks. Renting is a crappy deal.

Liberty wrote:Certain landowners were. I don't believe most black folks liked the system much in those days. I personally find the idea that only property owners are responsible was pretty silly. I just wish the ignorant were smart enough to understand they don't know enough to vote.

An excellent point, one that I didn't consider until now. Unfair racial issues aside, property ownership is probably the most reasonable "are you responsible enough to vote" litmus test there was/is.

TheArmedFarmer wrote:

Liberty wrote:Certain landowners were. I don't believe most black folks liked the system much in those days. I personally find the idea that only property owners are responsible was pretty silly. I just wish the ignorant were smart enough to understand they don't know enough to vote.

An excellent point, one that I didn't consider until now. Unfair racial issues aside, property ownership is probably the most reasonable "are you responsible enough to vote" litmus test there was/is.

Well said.

Now comes the nationwide current castrophe of unqualified buyers being given unsubstantiated loans by greedy and/or unscrupulous lendors. Who is the least responsible in this scenario - lendor or borrower?

Where was the government, where is the accountability, where is common sense?

As a renter who pays my rent on time, I'm more responsible than the property "owners" who are late on their mortgage payments.

I'm millions of times more responsible than the home "owners" who are begging for government bailouts. It's bad enough they got a tax break for having a mortgage and I was forced to subsidize their house when the market was good but it will be even worse if they get government help (aka WELFARE) to pay their mortgage.

The money is going to come out of the pockets of responsible renters who don't get tax breaks.

boomerang wrote:As a renter who pays my rent on time, I'm more responsible than the property "owners" who are late on their mortgage payments.

I'm millions of times more responsible than the home "owners" who are begging for government bailouts. It's bad enough they got a tax break for having a mortgage and I was forced to subsidize their house when the market was good but it will be even worse if they get government help (aka WELFARE) to pay their mortgage.

The money is going to come out of the pockets of responsible renters who don't get tax breaks.

The operative word is "responsible". Where is the accountability - from top to bottom and bottom to top?

I did not really vote FOR McCain.

I like to say I voted against BHO, and checking the McCain box was the way to do that.


What is sad is that in some states your vote does not really count.

I mean Texas was going to go for McCain, so even voting for BHO really does not influence anything.

I think it was said (on the news or something) it is down to about a dozen states that actually can swing and decide elections.

Unless you live in one of those states, IMHO, your vote does not really matter.

Just an opinion, still gonna keep voting, just not sure it effects anything (at the national level).

What, no Ron Paul option?

Edit: I know his votes weren't counted in texas but for me it was either that or no vote. I largely went for local offices anyway.

Ooops, I thought this thread was about our current sitting President.

Pete wrote:I did not really vote FOR McCain.

I like to say I voted against BHO, and checking the McCain box was the way to do that.


What is sad is that in some states your vote does not really count.

I mean Texas was going to go for McCain, so even voting for BHO really does not influence anything.

I think it was said (on the news or something) it is down to about a dozen states that actually can swing and decide elections.

Unless you live in one of those states, IMHO, your vote does not really matter.

Just an opinion, still gonna keep voting, just not sure it effects anything (at the national level).

This is very sad, but never the less, true. This is also the reason a lot of people do not even bother to vote. It is the same thing all over again each election, it's that same little bunch up in the North East that decides the elections. But, I will continue to vote...it is about the only freedom we still have, and I as have, and many still are, fought for that right.

-geo

I believe that anyone who is only going to the polls to vote for our president probably shouldn't be at the polls.

4 Years ago on a different board (golf related) I made a prediction to my friends there that George Bush would go down in history as one of the worst presidents ever, If not the worst. It turns out I was right. I voted for him in 2000 and I fired him in 2004 (not enough voters fired him though) I picked the wrong man in 2000 I voted against the wrong man in 2004 and in 2008 I picked a winner.

I predict in 4 years that we will NOT be a communist state and that NO ONE on this board will have had their guns taken away.

How many of you think I am wrong?

Brad