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The first rule is:
1) de-escalation of the situation
2) I do not see justification for the use of deadly force. No one was in danger of death or sever bodily harm.
3) Reporting a minor none violent crime is one thing and pulling a gun on someone for dumping trash is least to say overreaction.

You could have lost your CHL in a flash!

I read this post before anyone had responded, but refrained from responding. I will share that my thoughts mirror those of most of the responders: you chose to draw your weapon in a situation that I personally would not have chosen to draw.

Let me say that I hope I never NEVER EVER NEVER have to draw my weapon, and it damn sure isn't going to be over someone dumping trash. I have to question if you wouldn't have pulled over and blocked him in had you not had a weapon. If the presence of that weapon empowered you to do so, then I would have to say you stepped over a line that I would not have crossed.

I was not there, and was not part of the situation. I am not trying to be disrespectful. However, you're lucky he didn't see your weapon, pull one of his own, and shoot you like the sitting duck you were.

Sorry you had to go through this, but being "old and fat" as you described yourself, I suggest you choose your fights a bit more carefully.

That's my .02 cents......which my ex-wife will tell you isn't even worth that.

Peace.

Chucky

Yep....that was some serious danger you put your family in over a load of garbage being dumped on the roadside. You must really be tired of dumpers, but I sure would be hesitant to risk my love ones like that over garbage dumping.

I would have called the cops and let them do their job. If my family was in the truck, I would not have stopped out of the concern for putting my families lives at risk.

If I read the op correctly, he blocked in the trash dumper and drew his weapon prior to any interaction whatsoever. Weapon was drawn before the guy rummaged through his truck. Weapon was drawn prior to the guy approaching op's truck. I don't get it. As soon as the guy knew somone had seen him he started picking up the trash. Does that sound like someone who is going to cause you harm? Like others said, take pics and call the cops. In fact if you had keep more distance the cops may have been able to catch him in the act.

chuckybrown wrote:I read this post before anyone had responded, but refrained from responding. I will share that my thoughts mirror those of most of the responders: you chose to draw your weapon in a situation that I personally would not have chosen to draw.

Let me say that I hope I never NEVER EVER NEVER have to draw my weapon, and it darn sure isn't going to be over someone dumping trash. I have to question if you wouldn't have pulled over and blocked him in had you not had a weapon. If the presence of that weapon empowered you to do so, then I would have to say you stepped over a line that I would not have crossed.

I was not there, and was not part of the situation. I am not trying to be disrespectful. However, you're lucky he didn't see your weapon, pull one of his own, and shoot you like the sitting duck you were.

Sorry you had to go through this, but being "old and fat" as you described yourself, I suggest you choose your fights a bit more carefully.

That's my .02 cents......which my ex-wife will tell you isn't even worth that.

Chucky

I totally agree. Unless this was your property he was dumping on what give's you the right to draw on him. We are not a LEO. If you felt you had the need to get involved get the model, make, color of his vehicle and his liscense plate number along with the location of where he was dumping and call it in to the proper authorities. As a CHL we are not Barney Fife out trying to enforce the law.

This is a delayed post so I apologise if it's redundant. IMHO it's easy to understand your concern over your friends property being "trashed", and I respect that you cared enough to even take notice.

A lot of people would have turned a blind eye and rolled on down the road.

There's such rampant disrespect for other peoples property today.

It's understandable that you wanted to get this guy busted - but these kinds of people aren't worth risking an altercation or losing your CHL over.

But again I do respect your intentions.

Gosh, I guess by now you must feel like everyone is jumping on you. I am sorry for that, but really, you just reacted with your anger at seeing the guy dumping instead of thinking it all through. Yes, I hate trash dumpers too, but if you lost your right to carry that gun over it, what would that have gained for you?

There is one more thing to consider. Whenever a CHL is involved in a shooting, it makes the news and the liberals try to have a field day with it to gain more support for gun control. You make that so easy if it can be made to look like anyone with a gun is going to try to be a vigilante or a hothead. Had this situation gone another way, you could well have had to kill a guy over trash and every CHL holder in the nation would have our right to carry a gun just that much more in danger from the backlash. CHL's must be law abiding to a fault, slow to anger, and NOT behave like vigilantes--we are NOT cops. Involving ourselves in anything with our guns must not be of our own choosing unless someone's life is in danger. Every time a CHL looks bad in the news, someone decides to support the Brady bunch who was on the fence before. We frankly do not need to lose any support for our second amendment rights over trash.

Y2bad4u wrote:I got one question to all that have posted, how many times have you been in a confrontational situation? Some guy mouthing off and then heading toward his trucking rummaging around for something would make me really concerned he may pull a weapon. I would definitely pull mine to make sure thats not what he was doing. Don't distort the facts. He didn't pull his weapon because the guy was dumping trash. He pulled because he was scared what that guy may end up pulling out of his truck.

If I was blocking someone in and was concerned he was about to come out with a weapon, I'd leave.

It's a good maxim for armed citizens to never go anywhere armed that you wouldn't go unarmed. I think the same goes for initiating confrontation: if you wouldn't do it while unarmed, don't do it with a gun in your hand.

And I'm sorry that I'm one more that seems to be piling on the OP. I understand his motivation, but I think he made some poor choices here.

I re-holstered my gun, and pulled out my Id and approached the officer holding out my ID

Next time, have one of these, maybe he'll surrender:



Seriously, I'd lighten up on the brandishing and command stuff, guy. You pulled a gun first. They don't shoot people anymore for littering and trespassing. I'm just sayin...

Carry a CHL and the handgun that goes with is a great privilege. This is why while taking the CHL course, 10 hrs of legal instructions cannot be underestimated.
Once a while, we all need some refresher.

My next CHL should be a good instructor, seek the best!

I agree that the situation did not call for use of deadly force.
And I get as mad about dumping or even simple littering as anyone.

I think additionally that blocking his truck in with yours amounts to unlawful detention or something like that.

In that situation, I'd stop and very obviously take pictures while calling the law.
I'd probably do this from across the road. And I'd take my time about it.

The only time I have witness dumping like this was in a public park in Haltom city. I was afoot, carrying a pellet pistol, no camera. I watched and waited to get a tag number when they left, but they had pulled the tags. All I could do was glare at them while they pulled away. Very frustrating.

Glad it worked out for you.

chabouk wrote:It's a good maxim for armed citizens to never go anywhere armed that you wouldn't go unarmed. I think the same goes for initiating confrontation: if you wouldn't do it while unarmed, don't do it with a gun in your hand.

This is excellent advice. I had not consciously thought about it this way, but I have not changed where I will or won't go and what situation I will or won't get myself into. Well, that's not entirely true. I have become less confrontational, but that could just be age and the ever present reminder (my daughter) that I'm a father and have a responsibility to be there for her. I look forward to being a grandfather in about 20 years.

But I bet he'll never dump trash again

I am with you on certain parts of the situation. I too get frustrated when lowlifes do stupid stuff like dump trash, let their dogs bark all night, jay walk, and generally treat the world like they are the most important thing there and we all should bow to their every whim. That being said, (and thank you for posting this with all the details), pulling the ole' kneeknocker early like that (from an armchair response) was a bit early.

I dont really agree with the "turn a blind eye" responses that Isaw...but I certainly would have weighed that against my fam sitting in the vehicle with me. Armchair response would be to snap a pic and call the cops (get the license plate, a pic of the guy, etc.). I think of that statement "when good men do nothing....."

That all being said though, I wouldnt have yanked the ole piece at that point as you were "relatively" safe. When the guy started advancing on you and whatnot, that made it a different story....and odd that a person, in the middle of nowhere, having a weapon on him is able to do more than fill up his underwear???? I am surprised that he did anything. Had I had a gun trained on me, I would be VERY compliant and make sure the "gun-ee" is kept as calm as can be.

Thanks for posting. It will be a learning experience for all.

And to all the trash dumpers....find a trashcan!!!

priusron,

Do take what's been posted as constructive criticism - that's what it is.

Your disgust at what you witnessed is understandable, beyond that I'm sure you've been brought up to date...

Don't let it stop you from posting.

Merry Christmas!

Abraham wrote:priusron,

Do take what's been posted as constructive criticism - that's what it is.

Your disgust at what you witnessed is understandable, beyond that I'm sure you've been brought up to date...

Don't let it stop you from posting.

Merry Christmas!

Your post and the many like them are valuable for me and probably many others to learn from.
Isn't that why we're here ? to learn ?

And oh yeah.. Merry Christmas !