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Re: A few questions...complex but may be a simple answer
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:08 pm
by gigag04
cbr600 wrote:To Steve's point, an arrest is grounds for suspension, not revokation. However, in any job, many employees won't know/remember the standard proccess for events that occur very infrequently (which is why we have fire drills, for example.)
Also...I'm not sure it is a MANDATORY form. I will check monday. But...if it's not mandatory, and it's just an arrest, I can see foregoing the form and let the suspect have their day in court before you pull their CHL...if it is optional....
Re: A few questions...complex but may be a simple answer
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:05 pm
by chabouk
gigag04 wrote:
First of all, I doubt you got a DUI, you probably got a DWI. And if you "refused' to take the tests, I'm willing to bet you refused to submit a blood or breath specimen. Doing so, is a DWI - refusal. If you thought you were "not anywhere near the legal limit" then you should have performed your tests fine and been on your way. Or say you wont perform the SFST's and offer a blood draw. Seems like you aren't taking responsibility for violating a law, and now trying to pin it on an officer that was well within the scope of law and his duties. If you had a self proclaimed bad attitude, then why do you not feel that you were presented as being a Marine with a chip on your shoulder? It's all about perspective.
I believe there's more than a passing chance that in the heat of the moment, he refused the FST, but was charged with refusing a blood or breath specimen. And I don't mean that he was railroaded, I mean that in an ongoing encounter, a subtle change in terms can make a huge legal difference, even if the change isn't caught by all the participants.
Re: A few questions...complex but may be a simple answer
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:02 pm
by gigag04
chabouk wrote:gigag04 wrote:
First of all, I doubt you got a DUI, you probably got a DWI. And if you "refused' to take the tests, I'm willing to bet you refused to submit a blood or breath specimen. Doing so, is a DWI - refusal. If you thought you were "not anywhere near the legal limit" then you should have performed your tests fine and been on your way. Or say you wont perform the SFST's and offer a blood draw. Seems like you aren't taking responsibility for violating a law, and now trying to pin it on an officer that was well within the scope of law and his duties. If you had a self proclaimed bad attitude, then why do you not feel that you were presented as being a Marine with a chip on your shoulder? It's all about perspective.
I believe there's more than a passing chance that in the heat of the moment, he refused the FST, but was charged with refusing a blood or breath specimen. And I don't mean that he was railroaded, I mean that in an ongoing encounter, a subtle change in terms can make a huge legal difference, even if the change isn't caught by all the participants.
Off Topic, but it is dang near impossible to accidentally refuse to submit a specimen. There is a form that will be read to as you read along (in english and spanish if need be) that says the peace officer is requesting a specimen etc etc. If you sign saying you refuse, that is your willful statement of refusal. This happens after any SFST's and after an arrest has been made. You should be mirandized before going through the DIC-23, 24, 25 and TLE-1 and 1A paperwork.
Re: A few questions...complex but may be a simple answer
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:19 pm
by tacticool
The Monday morning quarterbacking may help the next guy, but I haven't seen much to help the OP. It looks like his options are (1) pardon, (2) expungement, (3) get a license from another state, or (4) no carry outside home/car/business for a long time. Anything I missed?
Re: A few questions...complex but may be a simple answer
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:02 pm
by sjfcontrol
What's the difference between a DUI and a DWI?
Re: A few questions...complex but may be a simple answer
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:06 pm
by gigag04
tacticool wrote:The Monday morning quarterbacking may help the next guy, but I haven't seen much to help the OP. It looks like his options are (1) pardon, (2) expungement, (3) get a license from another state, or (4) no carry outside home/car/business for a long time. Anything I missed?
Nope I think we had that summed up 2 pages back. But the speculation will probably continue :)
Re: A few questions...complex but may be a simple answer
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:18 pm
by Keith B
sjfcontrol wrote:What's the difference between a DUI and a DWI?
In Texas a DUI is issued to anyone not of legal drinking age (21) with any amount of alcohol in their system. DWI is issued to anyone who is .08 or higher BAC. If you are 21 or older, you there is no DUI, only DWI, but you can be arrested for DWI even under .08 BAC per the officers discretion.
Re: A few questions...complex but may be a simple answer
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:23 pm
by gigag04
You can also get a DWI if you are under 21, and intoxicated. Are we confused yet? :)
Under 21, not intoxicated or impaired, but have any alcohol in your system .00 > BAC > .08, DUI
Age 17+ with BAC > .08, or any proveable impairment due to alcohol, you go DWI.
Things get tricker with kids 16 yoa and younger, as you start getting Juvi involved. They can still be charged, but juvi issues are a whole different animal.
Re: A few questions...complex but may be a simple answer
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:28 pm
by sjfcontrol
Keith B wrote:sjfcontrol wrote:What's the difference between a DUI and a DWI?
In Texas a DUI is issued to anyone not of legal drinking age (21) with any amount of alcohol in their system. DWI is issued to anyone who is .08 or higher BAC. If you are 21 or older, you there is no DUI, only DWI, but you can be arrested for DWI even under .08 BAC per the officers discretion.
Thanks for clearing that up, Keith. However, I believe the "officer's discretion" is a bit misleading. The officer must be able to demonstrate that the person is intoxicated, meaning that he doesn't have full mental or physical capabilities (impaired), in order for the charge to stick. Of course, I suppose the officer could arrest for any reason, it just wouldn't stick. If the person os over .08%, he is assumed to be intoxicated. (As I understand it.)
Re: A few questions...complex but may be a simple answer
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:50 pm
by gigag04
sjfcontrol wrote:I suppose the officer could arrest for any reason, it just wouldn't stick. If the person os over .08%, he is assumed to be intoxicated. (As I understand it.)
And he would find himself charged under 18 US 241 and/or 242 by some unhappy FBI agents :)
As far as .08 - it is what the courts called illegal per se... illegal independent of any other surrounding situations. Kinda like exceeding the prima facie speed limit is "speeding"
Re: A few questions...complex but may be a simple answer
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:48 pm
by marksiwel
gigag04 wrote:sjfcontrol wrote:I suppose the officer could arrest for any reason, it just wouldn't stick. If the person os over .08%, he is assumed to be intoxicated. (As I understand it.)
And he would find himself charged under 18 US 241 and/or 242 by some unhappy FBI agents :)
As far as .08 - it is what the courts called illegal per se... illegal independent of any other surrounding situations. Kinda like exceeding the prima facie speed limit is "speeding"
So under .07 you can carry right
Re: A few questions...complex but may be a simple answer
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:03 pm
by boomerang
marksiwel wrote:So under .07 you can carry right
Yes, I can. But you can't.
But back on topic, I suggest our leatherneck friend consider a license from a more liberal state.
Re: A few questions...complex but may be a simple answer
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:46 am
by AustinTXMarine
Any recommendations on the state and how I go about getting one from a state that I do not live in?
Re: A few questions...complex but may be a simple answer
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:53 pm
by marksiwel
AustinTXMarine wrote:Any recommendations on the state and how I go about getting one from a state that I do not live in?
Call a CHL Instructor and ask if they do Utah Classes, they are cheaper and only like 4-5 hours.
Re: A few questions...complex but may be a simple answer
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:55 pm
by boomerang
AustinTXMarine wrote:Any recommendations on the state and how I go about getting one from a state that I do not live in?
PM sent