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chabouk wrote:

Embalmo wrote: Of course they are related-Gun rentals without NICS or a CHL, logically speaking, circumvents the NICS process.

It doesn't circumvent anything, because NICS is not part of renting a gun. Because no transfer is taking place, it would actually be a crime ("making a false statement") to perform a NICS check on a rental.

There is no transfer taking place when a gun is rented. It is, and remains, the range's gun. The gun doesn't go anywhere, it stays on the range. Would you insist on a NICS every time a clerk hands a gun to a customer?

Legally speaking you are, and have been dead on, but what I'm debating isn't the current law, but common, "if then" logic; for practical purposes, transfer is certainly occurring as surely as a car rental is transferring temporary ownership of a vehicle. Once that gun is being fired at the range, for safety and practical purposes, it doesn't matter who it belongs to.

Suggesting that a clerk handing a cleared, unloaded gun to a customer is transference is a false analogy, as the customer is given no right, permission, or opportunity to use it in its intended manner; that is, walking into another room, loading it, and firing it. Pull some live rounds out of your pocket the next time you're at Academy and start feeding them into the magazine, and you'll find yourself agreeing with me quickly.

I'm unsubscribing to the topic because we both know each other's opinions. You don't like NICS and I think that if we do have to deal with NICS it should at least discourage the bad guys from buying and shooting where we buy and shoot. I appreciate the debate (seriously).

Embalmo

Embalmo wrote:

chabouk wrote:

Embalmo wrote: Of course they are related-Gun rentals without NICS or a CHL, logically speaking, circumvents the NICS process.

It doesn't circumvent anything, because NICS is not part of renting a gun. Because no transfer is taking place, it would actually be a crime ("making a false statement") to perform a NICS check on a rental.

There is no transfer taking place when a gun is rented. It is, and remains, the range's gun. The gun doesn't go anywhere, it stays on the range. Would you insist on a NICS every time a clerk hands a gun to a customer?

Legally speaking you are, and have been dead on, but what I'm debating isn't the current law, but common, "if then" logic; for practical purposes, transfer is certainly occurring as surely as a car rental is transferring temporary ownership of a vehicle. Once that gun is being fired at the range, for safety and practical purposes, it doesn't matter who it belongs to.

Suggesting that a clerk handing a cleared, unloaded gun to a customer is transference is a false analogy, as the customer is given no right, permission, or opportunity to use it in its intended manner; that is, walking into another room, loading it, and firing it. Pull some live rounds out of your pocket the next time you're at Academy and start feeding them into the magazine, and you'll find yourself agreeing with me quickly.

I'm unsubscribing to the topic because we both know each other's opinions. You don't like NICS and I think that if we do have to deal with NICS it should at least discourage the bad guys from buying and shooting where we buy and shoot. I appreciate the debate (seriously).

Embalmo

Do you think that doing background checks would solve the VERY tiny number of Gun Range Deaths/Suicides? What was the total number from last year 3? And maybe 10 injuries from a rented gun? More kids choke to death on hotdogs, but no one is asking for your ID when you pick up a pack of Hebrew National?
If it wasnt for gun rentals we would have as many shooters, gun sales would go down, people would lose jons, resort to crime, and then kill more people well atleast the first half was true

Want to know the problem with the NICS? Felons don't use it.

But don't you feel better knowing that because of NICS, its not possible for a convicted felon to own/purchase a handgun???

camlott wrote:

Want to know the problem with the NICS? Felons don't use it.

But don't you feel better knowing that because of NICS, its not possible for a convicted felon to own/purchase a handgun???

Under that logic we shouldnt have turn signals because no one uses them.

jmra wrote:The only time we have ever rented guns was when my wife was trying to figure out which gun she wanted for cc. We had completed our class but had not yet received our plastic.

She was able to rent 4 different guns with enough ammo for each gun to get a feel for the weapon for a total of $60. This was money well spent because it completely changed her mind about the weapon she was going to purchase.

I really don't see the difference in someone renting a gun and someone going to the range for the first time with the weapon they just purchased. Of course I am also opposed to any new "laws" affecting what we can and can't do with guns.

I like the idea of renting guns because I can try out new models/brands before I buy them. Plus, it's good for new shooters who don't have a friend to go to the range with them for the first time.

If someone wants to remove their self from the population, they don't need a gun to do it. They can rent a car and drive into a pole or off a cliff, or a multitude of other ways.

d strokes wrote: If someone wants to remove their self from the population, they don't need a gun to do it. They can rent a car and drive into a pole or off a cliff, or a multitude of other ways.

Japan has a much high suicide rate than the US and almost no Legal Gun Ownership, in fact one the best selling books in Japan is a guide to killing yourself.

Under that logic we shouldnt have turn signals because no one uses them.

Point Taken

For the record... I don't disagree in principle with NICS (I do not want to knowingly allow felons or mentally unstable people to legally obtain firearms)

In practice however, I think that NICS is for the most part ineffective for its purpose, especially in the case of convicted felons (who have already proven they obviously have no problems breaking the law).

In response to the OP in regards to NICS checks in order to rent a gun... What about every other person that walks into the range with their own gun? How do you know they don't have mental problems or are convicted felons? Would you propose NICS checks for everyone that goes to the range before they are allowed to use the facility?

Son, I am dissapoint. So many people arguing for less gun rights because freedom is inconvenient.